Cantatas BWV 80, BWV 80a & BWV 80b- Discussions

Cantata BWV 80
Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott
Cantata BWV 80a
Alles, was von Gott geboren
Cantata BWV 80b
Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott
Discussions - Part 5

Continue from Part 4

Edwin Foster [Morris Conservatory - Mountain Lakes, NJ] wrote (April 11, 2007):
We shall be doing BWV 80 "Ein Feste Burg" in June.
The instrumentation includes an English Horn only in Mvt. 5 choral.
Has anyone substituted a bassoon for this"taille" part.
We are using modern instruments.
Top end is D fourth line G clef which is at the top end of the bassoon' range.
The tessitura is A below middle C to B above middle C.
We are trying to avoid the expense of an extra player for just several minutes of music.

Douglas Cowling wrote (April 11, 2007):
[To Edwin Foster] A bassoon playing in its upper register is not very similar to a tenor oboe -- it's going to sound like the "Rite of Spring". I would err on the side of caution and ask a viola to play the part.

Bradley Lehman wrote (April 11, 2007):
[To Douglas Cowling] One might also try playing it on bassoon an octave lower...especially since a bassoon's tone is so rich in overtones anyway (midrange), and sort of sounds like it's playing an octave higher than it really is.

Cara Emily Thornton wrote (April 12, 2007):
[To Bradley Lehman] Yeah, I see (or rather hear) what you mean. The bassoon does indeed have a lot of high overtones there. The problem, on the other hand, with a viola is that the tone quality is completely different from any of the double-reed instruments. So I think on balance that the bassoon will give a closer rendition of the intended effect ;;)

Bradley Lehman wrote (April 12, 2007):
[To Cara Emily Thornton] Yup. It seems to me, since a real Taille is not being used in there anyway, it's also OK to rewrite/rearrange a new bassoon part (with mild changes of octave for parts of it, etc) -- whatever sounds best with ensemble blend, and watching also that one doesn't invert the harmony by taking the bassoon below the bass line at some of its spots (given *some* octave-lower use).

Some rewriting has to be done anyway, to swap the alto clef over to either the bass or tenor clef -- both of which are normal for bassoon music. So, a judicious bit of Octavknickung is reasonable too.

Bradley Lehman wrote (April 12, 2007):
[To Cara Emily Thornton] I see that the Carus performing edition
http://www.carus-verlag.com/index.php3?BLink=KKArtikel&ArtikelID=7923
in its wind parts simply gives a third oboe part here. That's in the Reinhold Kubik reconstruction.

And in their performing edition of the Wilhelm Friedemann Bach version of this piece, instead of third oboe, they just give an "Instrument" part (for the Taille); click through to "Harmoniestimmen":
http://www.carus-verlag.com/index.php3?BLink=KKArtikel&ArtikelID=2542

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Last update: ýSeptember 3, 2008 ý19:55:56