Cantata BWV 38 - Discussions

Cantata BWV 38
Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu Dir
Discussions - Part 2

Continue from Part 1

Discussions in the Week of October 15, 2006

Alain Bruguières wrote (October 15, 2006):
Week of October 15, 2006
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Cantata BWV 38, Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu Dir

Second Annual Cantata Cycle, 1723-24 (Jahrgang II)
21^st Sunday after Trinity
1^st performance: October 29, 1724 - Leipzig
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Bach Cantatas resources
Previous Discussions: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV38-D.htm
Main Cantata page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV38.htm
Text:
German http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/cantatas/38.html
English http://www.uvm.edu/~classics/faculty/bach/BWV38.html
French http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Texts/BWV38-Fre4.htm
Score Vocal & Piano: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV038-V&P.pdf
Recordings: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV38.htm#RC
Listen to Leusink recording [5] (free streaming download):
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Stream/BWV38-Leusink.ram
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Librettist : unknown
Biblical sources:
EPISTLE Ephesians 6: 10-17: Lay hold of the armour of God so that when the evil day comes you may hold the field.
GOSPEL John 4: 46-54: The healing of a nobleman's son after his father shows faith in Jesus.

This is a chorale cantata, based upon the chorale of the same name.
Five-verse hymn by Martin Luther, a paraphrase of Psalm 130.
See http://bach-cantatas.com/CM/Aus-tiefer-Not.htm
for details on this chorale melody.
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Structure
1. Choral SATB bc (+ trb I-IV ob I + II str)
2. Recit. A bc
3. Aria T ob I, II bc
4. Recit. S bc
5. Terzetto SAB bc
6. Choral SATB bc (+ instrs)
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Comment (mostly based on Dürr).

In this Chorale cantata the unknown librettist uses the five verses of the hymn in the following way:
Mvt. 1 (Choral) = verse 1
Mvt. 2 (Recit. A) = free paraphrase of verse 2
Mvt. 3 (Aria T) = free paraphrase of verse 3
Mvt. 4 (Recit. S) = related to the Gospel reading
Mvt. 5 (Terzetto SAB) = free paraphrase of verse 4
Mvt. 6 (Choral) = verse 5.

The libretto follows closely Luther's text : the nobleman's call fo help in time of need (Mvt. 1), because of his faith in Jesus (Mvt. 2), is met with Jesus' comforting words (Mvt. 3); so that faith brings about salvation (Mvt. 5). Through his Grace, God will redeem us from our sins, many as they are (Mvt. 6). In a parenthesis (Mvt. 4), the libretto elaborates on the words of Jesus in the week's Gospel 'If you do not see signs and wonders, you do not believe', establishng a link between hymn and Gospel.

The first movement (Mvt. 1) is a choral fantasia on Luther's Phrygian melody. It is atypical in that it adopt the motet style rather than the usual concertante orchestral style. The global impression is severe, antique, hieratic. Each choral line is treated is fugal style :
- exposition of the choral melody by the three lower voices;
- cantus firmus in the soprano (with augmented values)
- meanwhile the lower voices weave a somewhat independent contrapuntic texture.
- there is no instrumental interlude between two consecutive lines (on the contrary!).

However the line-sections enjoy a certain variety of writing technique and character. The first line begins with the choral melody in the tenor accompanied simultaneously by the bc. The second line begins also in the tenor, but in anticipation, so that it intones 'Herr Gott' while A and B sing 'zu Dir'. Similarly with the musically identical third and fourth line, and also the fifth and sixth line. This establishes strong links between the lines and contributes to an impression of great density. The sixth line is characterized by a powerful chromaticism depicting effectively 'sin and injustice'.

Note also that words like 'cry', 'calling', 'ear', 'zu mir', 'open' (your ear...) are dramatically stressed by sudden upward leaps of the lower voices often resulting in the alto and tenor reaching much higher than the soprano.

Introduced by a secco recitative, the tenor aria combines a joyful syncopated rhythm with a somewhat wistful melody, the 'word of comfort' prevailing over anguish in the end of the second section, on the line 'Sein Trost wird niemals von dir scheiden'.

As mentioned above, the soprano recitative refers to the Gospel reading rather that the hymn; Bach chose to materialize the link between the two by placing the choral melody in the continuo while the recitative is sung a battuta. This is done in a very discreet way; if it were not for the uniform rythm of delivery (which may raise suspicions) one would hardly notice that anything particular is going on here.

The fifth movement is a bipartite terzetto, rather complex in structure, with - a continuo ritornello; - a 3-part section, centered on the word 'Trubsal' (tribulations'), based on a new chromatic theme treated in imitative style, and towards the end allusions the ritornello; - the ritornello again, in the dominant - a 3-part section centered on the word 'Trost' (comfort) based on a different theme, then incorporating the material from the first 3-part section as well as allusions to the ritornello, and in its conclusion incorporating the whole ritornello - a reprise of the ritornello.

The cantata ends with the usual 'plain' (please note the ' ' : nothing is ever plain in Bach;) 4-part harmonized choral.

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A more personal comment.

Well, not so personal after all! The similitude between the choral fantasia of this cantata and the choral prelude in Part III of the Clavierübung always strikes me. Dürr mentions it, too. He notes that in the choral prelude for the organ the part-writing is 'even more flowing and linear', while perhaps in the earlier choral fantasia, the lines enjoy a more varied character in relation to the meaning of the text, and observes that the comparison 'shows the direction in which Bach had developed in the interim'. Still both share the same austere, ancient, hieratic character.

It occurred to me that the 'terzetto' is a somewhat unexpected, even mysterious piece for a Bach cantata. Now in Part III of the Clavierübung, each choral comes in a larger and a lesser form; typically we have a 4- or 5-part choral of massive dimensions, and a 3-part 'fuguetta'. The terzetto, written as it is in imitative style not wholly alien to that of the inital choral fantasia, seems to play the role of its lesser counterpart. Is it reasonable to view the fantasia and the terzetto as forming a pair of the same nature as those we find in Part III of the Clavierübung?

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Possible topics of discussion.

The discussions are of a very high level of quality. I really don't think I'm in a position to 'lead' them in any way. Perhaps someone will take up the question asked above.

DouglCowling wrote (October 15, 2006):
Alain Bruguieres wrote:
< The first movement is a choral fantasia on Luther's Phrygian melody. It is atypical in that it adopt the motet style rather than the usual concertante orchestral style. The global impression is severe, antique, hieratic. >
Mendelssohn wrote an impressive motet for choir and organ which imitates this opening chorus. After the chorale-fantasy, he gives the tenor a wonderfully lyrical Lied right out of the 19^th century. One of the finest hommages to Bach.

Julian Mincham wrote (October 15, 2006):
Someone earlier mentioned BWV 78 as a favourite of all the cantatas:- for me BWV 38 would come near the top of the list.

The chromatic slightly tortuous first vocal theme of the trio is particularly unusual and appealing. In fact this is one of only three trios in this cycle and, in my opinion the best.The ritornello is based upon the most cliched harmonic progression of the age, the cycle of fifths. The vocal theme is highly contrasted giving the impression of the voices being chained or 'fettered' together as the text suggests. A new vocal thems comes for the dawning of the 'enlightening sun'--and all bound together by the conventional ritornello. A masterpiece of construction and given a very energetic performance by JEG--rather more exciting then Koopman's more introspective and slightly nondescript reading [6].

The fantasia is not completely atypical-there are pther examples of these bare, arid minor key vocal motets in the cycle the first coming as early as the second, BWV 2. When the voices are doubled by trombones, the sound is particularly striking and rather eerie.

This is, incidentally, a cantata in which Schweitzer gets almost everything wrong. The trio, he says should be performed by 'a small chorus not the soloists'. He might not hold the same views if he heard some of today's excellent Bach soloists.

But his comments on the tenor aria raise a point on which I seek some suggestions from list members. He claims that the 'undeniably wretched declamation proves the music to have been borrowed from another work' . He doesn't evidence this and he ignores the central keystone position of the aria and its text:- moreover he ignores the internal musical motivic evidence which particularly binds this movements to sections of the trio.There is little doubt, I suggest, that this movement was conceived as a vital part of this cantata.

Which leaves the 'wretched declamation'. Was Bach somewhat careless about the words setting on this occasion? Certainly there are examples where he has taken other movements and fitted new words to them but this seems to be not such an example.

So my question, stemming from my own lack of experience in the German language and its accents and inflexions is this:--can some of the bi-lingual members on list provide some precise examples of poor declamation from this aria, showing precisely what has not worked, where the accents should lie etc etc. It would be most interesting to have some informed opinion from truly bilingual colleagus.

Alain Bruguières wrote (October 15, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
< This is, incidentally, a cantata in which Schweitzer gets almost everything wrong. The trio, he says should be performed by 'a small chorus not the soloists'. H e might not hold the same views if he heard some of today's excellent Bach soloists. >
This is a "tradition" in other Bach works as well. The "Suscepit Israel" in the Magnificat (BWV 243) is usually peformed by a women's chorus because most performances only hire four soloists although Bach specified five (SSATB).

There are many choral bad habits which are now traditional: using full SA for the first duet in "Christ Lag in Todesbanden", full tenors for "Zion Hört" in "Wachet Auf" and full tenors and basses (!) for "Et iterum" in "Et Resurrexit" in the B Minor Mass (BWV 232). The worst for historical misrepresentation is referring to the ripeneo choir in the SMP (BWV 244) as the "boys' choir" and then using huge children's choirs to sing the two movements.

Alain Bruguières wrote (October 15, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
< Someone earlier mentioned BWV 78 as a favourite of all the cantatas:- for me BWV 38 would come near the top of the list. >
I would also place 38 near the top... in fact, before preparing this week's introduction, I was under the vague impression that this cantata was completely dominated by the opening chorus; and while this chorus was one of my favorites, the rest of the cantata seemed less interesting. But having listened to it rather intensively while writing the introduction, I found out that this impression was completely wrong and the cantata as a whole is very remarkable and coherent.

< The chromatic slightly tortuous first vocal theme of the trio is particularly unusual and appealing. Indeed, the terzetto is a very fascinating piece.
The fantasia is not completely atypical-there are pther examples of these bare, arid minor key vocal motets in the cycle the first coming as early as the second, BWV 2. When the voices are doubled by trombones, the sound is particularly striking and rather eerie. >
>
Quite true, still the vast majority of choral fantasias is of a different type. According to Aryeh (intro to BWV 2) "Of the five chorale-based choruses in this style, four are to Luther texts. It is clear that Bach associates this manner with bedrock Lutheran theology." I suppose the five include BWV 2, BWV 38, BWV 80, what are the other two?

Julian Mincham wrote (October 15, 2006):
Alain Bruguieres wrote:
< I suppose the five include BWV 2, BWV 38, BWV 80, what are the other two? >
Alain Interesting point about the relationship with the Lutheran theology. Can't bring to mind the 5^th at the moment but BWV 121 of the second cycle is the fourth. You are right about them being atypical. Interesting though that one is included in the first four cantatas of the second cycle. I have always thought that, in providing four such contrasting fantasias at the beginning of the cycle (and even using a different voice in each for the cantus firmus) Bach was virtually 'showing off' ----Look what can be done, what variety achieved even given the enormous (self imposed) constraints of the the chorale chorus!

Well, I guess noone has been better equipped to show off a bit than JSB

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 15, 2006):
Alain Bruguieres wrote:
>>According to Aryeh (intro to BWV 2) "Of the five chorale-based choruses in this style, four are to Luther texts. It is clear that Bach associates this manner with bedrock Lutheran theology." I suppose the five include BWV 2, BWV 38, BWV 80, what are the other two?<<
This style is called the 'stile antico' which is strongly related to the motet style (no orchestral ritornelli). Bach shows great variation in applying this style, some mvts. being very formal and strict while others showing a mixture of motet style with more modern elements. A good explanation of all this is given in the OCC [Oxford Composer Companions: J. S. Bach] in the articles on 'stile antico' and 'motet'. Alberto Basso, in his article on 'stile antico' speaks of an "antico motet style" and sees evidence of this in BWV 71/3 (1708), BWV 4/5 (c.1709), BWV 21/9 (1714), and BWV 182/7 (1714). He goes on to state that "But it was during Bach's Leipzig years that archaic procedures assumed greater consistency and importance, as can be seen in many cantata movements written during his first years as Thomas: BWV 64/1 and BWV 179/1 (1723); BWV 2/1, BWV 38/1, BWV 101/1, BWV 121/1, and BWV 144/1 (1724); and BWV 28/2, BWV 68/5, and BWV 108/4 (1725). The same might be said of certain sections in the first version of the Magnificat BWV 243a (1723). Later sacred works to exemplify the 'stile antico' include Cantata BWV 29/2 and some parts of the B minor Mass BWV 232, such as the second 'Kyrie eleison' (1733) and 'Credo in unum Deum', 'Crucifixus etiam pro nobis', and 'Confiteor unum baptisma' from the Symbolum Nicenum (c.1748-9)."

Mvts. like BWV 101/1 already display a mixture as Bach was probably experimenting with combining the motet/stile antico style with more modern elements.

Here is an interesting statement by Boyd from the OCC:

>>Classifications of various chorale forms do not automatically account for stylistic elements or for Bach's developments of style. For instance, chorale motets belong to the earliest and the latest phases of his compositional development and show an increasing concern with the pure counterpoint of the stile antico. In other words, Bach's style in this form begins as relatively 'modern' (or at least up-to-date for the early 18th century) and seems to become more 'ancient' towards the end of his career. This trend towards purer counterpoint was itself a wider fashion of the 1730s and 1740s, one that was complemented by a trend towards more modern, galant idioms.<<

My questions: Was the trend towards purer counterpoint "a wider fashion of the 1730s and 1740s" or did Bach find himself being more and more isolated by the predominance of the "more modern, galant idioms"? Is the stricter chorale motet form (stile antico) one which belongs to his earliest and latest phases of compositional development? How do we correctly categorize his achievements in this form with certain cantata mvts. during 1724-1725? Was Bach less concerned with formal counterpoint then?

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 15, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
>>This is, incidentally, a cantata in which Schweitzer gets almost everything wrong....But his comments on the tenor aria raise a point on which I seek some suggestions from list members. He claims that the 'undeniably wretched declamation proves the music to have been borrowed from another work'. He doesn't evidence this and he ignores the central keystone position of the aria and its text...I suggest, that this movement was conceived as a vital part of this cantata. Which leaves the 'wretched declamation'. Was Bach somewhat careless about the words setting on this occasion? Certainly there are examples where he has taken other movements and fitted new words to them but this seems to be not such an example.<<
Agreed. Schweitzer had a bad day when he voiced these opinions on this cantata. Perhaps hearing a bad performance of it with performers struggling with Bach's singing style, he might have been led to these wrong conclusions.

"Poor declamation" can be due to any one of a number of factors, but I cannot find a shred of evidence that would lead any reasonable individual who understands the text and the music to find fault with the tenor aria. A discussion of diction or proper declamation (not on the part of the performers although they can easily worsen the situation, but because of the composer's wrong choices in setting the text) in sacred works of this type during the first half of the 18^th century in Germany is sorely lacking in English. The OCC has one mention of diction in the context of parodies, the place were improper diction would most likely appear as both Bach and his librettist would attempt to find solutions for adapting the same music to a different text. It is remarkable how Bach often succeeds in this endeavor despite a number of obvious instances where he simply allows the modified text to slip through while losing the tight connections that the music originally had with the text that gave inspiration to the the music. However, this subject matter was discussed at great length by musicians/composers/theoreticians of that time. I have just located about a hundred pages of discussion in German between Mattheson and Bokemeyer which treats this subject in rather great detail and hope to summarize what they were arguing about. This includes Mettheson's quotation of text as sung with all its repetitions from BWV 21 without mentioning Bach's name.

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 16, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
>>The trio, he says should be performed by 'a small chorus not the soloists'.<< [Schweitzer's claim]
It is interesting to note here that if there are any cantatas that would have to be performed non-OVPP (even Rifkin concedes that such 'stile antico' mvts. like BWV 38/1 would never be sung simply OVPP), then this one would belong to that group. It takes a stretch of the imagination, however, to envision all the Thomaner sopranos and altos singing against very few basses as the latter were definitely always in short supply during Bach's tenure in Leipzig.

>>He [Schweitzer] claims that the 'undeniably wretched declamation proves the music to have been borrowed from another work'. He doesn't evidence this...."

BWV 38/3 Tenor Aria

Re: Evidence that this composition (the music being specifically composed for this text) is original and not recycled music (a parody) from an earlier source:

Both falling/sliding appoggiaturas on "Trost-wort" ("comforting word") mm 16 & 17

Octave jump upward on "Trostwort" in m 20 and later in m 50 on "deines Gottes" ("your God's") *Andreas Werckmeister explains on p. 96 of his "Musicalische Paradoxal-Discourse" Quedlinburg, 1707 that the octave represents "die Fülle der Gottheit in welcher alles begriffen, fein abgemahlet" ("the fullness/abundance of the deity which contains everything depicted/copied with precision [within the octave]"). The number 8 is considered a "Plenitudo"

Slightly chromatic ascending passage on "Leiden" ("suffering") in mm 34 & 35

Long, held note on the "steht" of "besteht" ("remains standing") in mm 51&52 and 61 &62

The fact that these specific words from the text coincide musically (word-painting) with various choices available to a composer but so intelligently chosen by Bach convinces me without a doubt that this aria was not a parody of an earlier sacred or from a secular mvt. from another cantata being reused.

Douglas Cowling wrote (October 16, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< My questions: Was the trend towards purer counterpoint "a wider fashion of the 1730s and 1740s" or did Bach find himself being more and more isolated by the predominance of the "more modern, galant idioms"? Is the stricter chorale motet form (stile antico) one which belongs to his earliest and latest phases of compositional development? How do we correctly categorize his achievements in this form with certain cantata mvts. during 1724-1725? Was Bach less concerned with formal counterpoint then? >
It's worth remembering that "stile antico" motets were the basic repertoire of Bach's choirs. The collection that was in constant use in the Leipzig churches under Bach's direction had contrapuntal and polychoral music as far back as the 16th century master, Rolandus Lassus (aka Orlando di Lasso). On ordinary Sundays, concerted music accounted for less than a half-hour in a four hour service.

However, Bach often seem to use the "antique style" symbolically. "Sicut locutus est ad patres nostro" in the Magnificat (BWV 243) is written in an old style probably to symbolize "our forefathers". In the Credo of the B Minor mass (BWV 232), the "Credo" and "Confiteor" symbolize the faith of antiquity. The "Kyrie" of the F Major Mass also quotes plainsong in its .

I would however not classify the "Crucifixus"of the B Minor Mass as "stile antiquo": the vocal counterpoint can't stand on its own.

Julian Mincham wrote (October 16, 2006):
BWV 38, further thread of declamation

Thomas Braatz wrote:
< The fact that these specific words from the text coincide musically (word-painting) with various choices available to a composer but so intelligently chosen by Bach convinces me without a doubt that this aria was not a parody of an earlier sacred or from a secular mvt. from another cantata being reused. >
Plus also the motivic equivalences with other parts of the cantata. I think the case for this movement being composed especially for this cantata is watertight.

Which leads us back to the mystery of Schweitzers' comments, a thread I would like to pursue a little further (and thanks Thomas for your ealier email on this).

When Bach reused ealier movements for the setting of new words (often in haste and under pressure, one assumes) there may be some reason for some lapses of word setting. If the movement was 'composed for purpose' there is no apparent reason other than the composer's incompetence--and we are talking of a composer with a very great experience of the craft. Yet Schweitzer is not just critical--he is vehemently so to the extent that for this reason alone he would like to see this great keystone tenor aria dropped in performances.

And yet Thomas, who is better equipped than I to make the judgement, confirms what I have suspected that there seem to be no obvious lapses of word setting technique in this movement. So what is going on?

Thomas raises the isue of definition of the word' declamation'. I had always interpretted it to refer to the compositional act of word setting whereby the natural rhythm of the words is fitted to the bar-determined rhythms of the music. This is largely (though not exclusively, because uses of high and low pitches and awkwardly conceived melismas may also be a factor) a matter of rhythm in which naturally weak and strong beats of the bar are used to coincide with the natural rhythms of speech (long and short notes also being an important factor.)

But if definiencies in these areas ar not apparent it might follow that Schweitzer means something else by the word. If so, what? Or could he have had a corrupted score (unlikely as he would have used the BG publications -----and he makes reference at one stage in his book to the welcome availability of scores at his time of writing). Could it be a matter of different regional accent? Might he mean that, in his view the substance of the music (vocal and instrumental lines, harmony, rhythm etc) that comprises the movement is unsuitable for the expression of the meaning of the text?

This is quite an enigma and I confess I have never found a solution to it--which is why I invite views from others.

Peter Smaill wrote (October 16, 2006):
[To Thomas Braatz] "Nothing is plain in Bach", regarding Chorales- well, certainly not in regard to the final Chorale of BWV 38, "Aus Tiefer Not".

The strophe is poetically unusual in that it starts with a declaration that a zeugma is coming, "Ob bei uns musst der Suenden viel". Rather than sweep past the unusual commencement of a verse with "Though" , Bach brilliantly emphasises this turning-point in the rhetoric of the text with an unusual inverted chord, and thus gives the Chorale one of the most outstanding, fleeting moments in all the Chorale harmonisations, a sign of his interest in Luther's setting of the De Profundis.

"It is of special significance to Lutherans, having been sung at Luther's funeral and was the last chorale to be sung, we are told, in Strasburg Cathedral before it was overrun by the French in 1681.

There are grounds for thinking that the chorale was especially inspiring to Bach. The obvious reference point is BWV 38, the paraphrased "Aus tiefer not", cantata for October 27 1724. The magnificent Pachelbel-style canonic opening chorus by this date is archaic; while the unusual minim introduction to the schlusschoral is innovative, and harmonically adventurous, the use of the Phyrigian mode in the cadences produces overall a mystical, pietistic effect.

To this can be added the Clavierubung BWV 686 and 687, again looking backwards sylistically but to magnificent effect. " (from discussions of BWV130).

For those interested in the range of implementation of motet settings within the Canatas , Daniel Melamed's "Bach and the German Motet" can be recommended. The combination of archaism and innovation in the last Chorale is not to be missed.

Neil Halliday wrote (October 16, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
>"But if deficiencies in these areas are not apparent it might follow that Schweitzer means something else by the word. If so, what?"<
Robertson does not shed much light on the matter; he merely reiterates Schweitzer's view (without naming him): "This aria has been severely criticised for it's faulty declamation - which shows at once in the opening vocal phrase - but the music does reflect the spirit of the words."

I don't understand the argument either. I quite like the syncopation on "hö-re" in "Ich hö-re mitten in dem Leiden..."; is this what Robertson is referring to? I have no clue of what Schweitzer is talking about, and since we don't have his definition of declamation, this may be difficult to ascertain. Anyway, the Harnoncourt and Rilling [3] recordings of this melodious aria (which I have) are most enjoyable, not a moment too long.

I find the modality of the `battuta' recitative tricky to comprehend; and the immediate repeat of the 1st two phrases of the chorale tune (in the continuo) a fourth higher, while the soprano ambles on, does not help matters.

The trio (Terzett) is a gem. (Part of) the repeated note figure in the continuo reminded me of the subject of the D minor organ fugue BWV 539 (or the solo violin fugue in G minor), and this figure occurs later on, in canon, in the vocal parts. Harnoncourt has a charming, bright organ accompaniment in the ritornello.

Then there are those four trombones in the often highly chromatic opening chorale fantasia. Awesome!

Douglas Cowling wrote (October 16, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
< When Bach reused ealier movements for the setting of new words (often in haste and under pressure, one assumes) there may be some reason for some lapses of word setting. >
Native German speakers are better qualified to judge the diction question, but word-painting frequently gets lost in parody. The references to drums and trumpets in "Tönet ihr Pauken" disappear in "Jauchzet Frohlocket" in the Christmas Oratorio (BWV 248). And in the same work, the writhing bass depicting the serpents trying to strangle the infant Hercules is lost in "Bereit dich Sion".

Douglas Cowling wrote (October 16, 2006):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< Then there are those four trombones in the often highly chromatic opening chorale fantasia. Awesome! >
The use of 'colla parte' trombones/sackbuts us right back to works of Praetorius and the sonority is a strong aural signal that the work is in the antique style. This tradition continues on even into the masses of Mozart, especially the C Minor Mass where he plays with the trombones, sometimes restricting them to old-fashioned doubling and at other times giving them independent parts.

Helmut Rilling, who is in Toronto this week for a Bach cantata festival, is going to conduct a performance of the Levin "completion" of the C Minor Mass with the Toronto Symphony.

The link to the cantata series is: http://www.internationalbachfestival.ca/

The public lectures look good:

Wednesday, October 18 at 12 noon
'How Bach Got the Job of Music Director in Leipzig'
in relation to Cantata BWV 23

Thursday, October 19 at 12 noon
'Bach on the End of Time'
in relation to Cantata BWV 70

Friday, October 20 at 12 noon
'Bach on the Birth of Jesus Christ'
in relation to Cantata BWV 7

Michael Marissen is a Professor of Music at Swarthmore College. He is the author of Lutheranism, Anti-Judaism, and Bach's St. John Passion (BWV 245), and of The Social and Religious Designs of J. S. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, published in 1995. He is the co-author of An Introduction to Bach Studies and is completing a book of annotated translations of the librettos from Bach's oratorios. His current projects include a monograph, Handel's Messiah and Christian Triumphalism . He also appeared at the Oregon Bach Festival in 2000 for a lecture on Bach's St. John Passion, and in 2006 lectured on "Bach's Spirituality." IBF Toronto is extremely pleased to welcome Professor Marissen, a native Canadian, back to Toronto!

Julian Mincham wrote (October 16, 2006):
In response to Alain's question about the 5 motet chorale fantasias, the fifth is, I think BWV 14, also a Lutheran text. This like BWV 80 is one of the later additions to the second cycle. So there are three of these works spread through the first the first 40 fantasias of that cycle (listed in an earlier email) with the two later additions. 14 has a somewhat unusual time signature for this type of movement, 3/8.

Neil Halliday wrote (October 17, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
<"In response to Alain's question about the 5 motet chorale fantasias, the fifth is, I think BWV 14, also a Lutheran text".>
So we have BWV 2/1, BWV 14/1, BWV 38/1, BWV 80/1, and BWV 121/1, as motet-like movements in the 'stile antico' (without ritornellos). Notice that the 1^st, 3^rd, and 5^th of these have four trombones doubling the SATB voices (except that BWV 121/1 has a cornetto rather than a trombone doubling the soprano voice). They are all from 1724, although BWV 14, according to Robertson, was composed in 1735.

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 17, 2006):
Neil Halliday wrote:
>>So we have BWV 2/1, BWV 14/1, BWV 38/1, BWV 80/1, and BWV 121/1, as motet-like movements in the 'stile antico' (without ritornellos). Notice that the 1st, 3rd, and 5th of these have four trombones doubling the SATB voices (except that BWV 121/1 has a cornetto rather than a trombone doubling the soprano voice). They are all from 1724, although BWV 14, according to Robertson, was composed in 1735.<<
Yes, in the latter case Bach, this is rather unusual for him to include the date, signed off at the end of the autograph score with SDG and 1735.

Ulrich Prinz in his "J. S. Bachs Instrumentarium" (2005) gives the entire list of Bach's works with trombones as follows:

with 4 trombones:

BWV 2/1,6 (1724)
BWV 38/1,6 (1724)
Transcription of Palestrina's "Missa sine nomine" (c.1742)

with 3 trombones:

BWV 4/2,8 1725 version
BWV 23/4 1723/1724 versions
BWV 25/1,6 1723
BWV 28/2,6 1725
BWV 64/1,2,4,8 1723
BWV 68/5 1725
BWV 101/1,7 1724
BWV 118 (Motet-Trauermusik) 1736/1737
BWV 121/1,6 1724
Bach's personal copy of F. Durante's "Mass in C minor" 1727-1731

with only 1 trombone:

BWV 3/1 1725
BWV 4/3 1725
BWV 96/1 1734, 1747 versions
BWV 135/1 1724

Julian Mincham wrote (October 17, 2006):
Neil Halliday wrote:
>>So we have BWV 2/1, BWV 14/1, BWV 38/1, BWV 80/1, and BWV 121/1, as motet-like movements in the 'stile antico' (without ritornellos). Notice that the 1st, 3rd, and 5th of these have four trombones doubling the SATB voices (except that BWV 121/1 has a cornetto rather than a trombone doubling the soprano voice). They are all from 1724, although BWV 14, according to Robertson, was composed in 1735.<<
According to Wolf BWV 80 comes later as well. He suggests 1740 with the motet movement newly composed.

So three from 1724 and the other two later?

Peter Smaill wrote (October 17, 2006):
Ed Myskowski very kindly supported the frequent theme, that the commentators skip over the Chorales even though quite remarkable word painting and harmonic effects occur in them.

With respect to BWV 38, one exception is Christoph Wolff, who cannot be expected to render much detail on each Cantata in his "Johann Sebastian Bach: The Learned Musician", since the entire life and output have to be covered in little over 500 pages. But he does single out the Chorale of this Cantata and produces a much fuller analysis of the opening chord than I have:

"According to the prevailing pattern, the final movements of the chorale cantatas present straightforward chorale harmonisations in Bach's usual unadorned style. But there are surprises in store. In cantata BWV 38, for example, Bach harmonises the very first tone of the hymn "Aus Tiefer Not" with a daring dissonance, a third-inversion dominant-seventh chord...." (p279).

Julian Mincham wrote (October 17, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< But there are surprises in store. In cantata BWV 38, for example, Bach harmonises the very first tone of the hymn "Aus Tiefer Not" with a daring dissonance, a third-inversion dominant-seventh chord...." ( >
I have always thought that Wolff overeggs the pudding on this point. This is hardly a 'daring dissonance'. By Bach's time the dominant 7th was a well used chord in all its inversions. It might well have been unusual to begin a chorale on this chord, but when one considers the semitone dissonances that Bach used elsewhere, this very mild one can hardly be called 'daring'.

But that point aside, Peter is absolutely right to draw our attention to the chorales. I suspect that for most people exploring the cantatas the choruses and arias come first--the chorales and recits somewhat later.

And a focus on the chorales raises so many interesting questions. Why did Bach reharmonise so often? Was it because he thought he could do better? Or (as I suspect) when harmonising a chorale to a different stanza, did his uncanny ear for the text lead him to alter the harmony accordingly. e.g.the chorale used for BWV 2 was used by Bach on several occasions, notably the earlier BWV 153. In BWV 2, he introduces an almost bizarre Ab chord in the second phrase, not used in the earlier versions. Why? To suggest the 'evil ones' outside of the normal God fearing community perhaps? Also note the passing through C minor in the last phrase before coming to rest on a D major chord---the heretics and godless are around us but not with us (look at the text)

Look at the modal characteristics of the chorale of BWV 176--a strange ambivalence of F and C minors. How does it relate to the text? Or the choice of minor modes for the chorales which conclude a cantata with opening movements in the major (BWV 74). The diminished chord on the word 'horen', an powerful piece of word painting in 175. The changing of the phrase lengths to suit different texts--BWV 111 and the different version in SMP (BWV 244). The movement from C to Bb in the firsphrase of the chorale from 41, differently harmonised in the earlier BWV 190. I could go on!

Yes Peter, there is a lot to examine and learn about Bach's approach from the chorales alone. Thanks for raising the issue.

Maybe a later thread might be to examine the recits similarly?

Alain Bruguières wrote (October 18, 2006):
Recits please!

[To Julian Mincham & Peter Smaill] I for one would be very happy if we had a discussion on recitatives some day.

As times goes by, I find recitatives more and more fascinating.Trouble is, I don't find words to express the delicate feelings I derive from recitatives.

I'm sure that there are many members who would be competent to talk about them, and I would gladly learn from them.I sense that the recitative is an art of its own.

Julian Mincham wrote (October 16, 2006):
[To Alain Bruguieres] I haven't got time to kick off on this one at the moment but would be happy to contribute particularly on the 'hybrid' recits of which a lot exist in the second cycle--combinations of recit, arioso, chorale, ritornello etc.

Neil Halliday wrote (October 18, 2006):
BWV 38: instrumentation in recordings

Suzuki's volume 29 [8] has the two motet-type movements with 4 `col parte' trombones, viz, BWV 2/1 and BWV 38/1. Both movements sound very impressive.

Koopman's [6] lute in the continuo of the terzett produces an interesting, quite charming effect.

On the topic of continuo, turn to Richter [2] for a `beautification' of the instrumentation of the soprano recitative with the chorale in the continuo. The subtle registration, with 4 and 2 foot stops, and soft realisation on the large concert organ, transform this movement into a kind of heavenly `floating' sound, in comparison with the harshly austere music heard in the continuo of most recordings, in which frankly ugly `scraping' noises (maybe the recording microphone picks up the scraping of the bow across the large string instruments), and/or the dull effect of cello notes doubled an octave below by the double bass and doubled again by bass clef notes on small `portativ' organs and maybe doubled again by bassoon, without sufficient balancing instrumental treble-clef material.

I can't imagine anyone listening to the recitative mentioned above in most of the available recordings, and thinking the music is magical, or entrancing, or beautiful.

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 19, 2006):
BWV 38 Chafe commentary

The following is an excerpt from Chafe's book on tonal allegory in which he expounds his theory on anabasis and catabasis in Bach's sacred vocal works:

>>If the meaning of Bach's tonal allegory in Cantata BWV 109 is the hidden granting of faith and its overt manifestation only after a period of doubt, the same is true of Cantata 38, "Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir," of the following year. A chorale cantata based on Luther's well-known hymn, Cantata 38 is a free version of Psalm 130 and sung to the ancient Phrygian melody.. From two elements of text and chorale melody, with perhaps the additional aid of Luther's commentary on the psalm itself, Bach produced an allegorical structure that is profoundly dependent on tonal directions, using catabasis up to the final verse of the chorale:

CANTATA 38: "Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir"

1. Chorale motet: "Aus tiefer Not," in E Phrygian
2. Recitative ending with Phrygian cadence in A minor (i.e., E Phrygian)
3. Aria: "Ich höre mitten in den Leiden ein Trostwort," in A minor
4. Recitative with chorale cantus firmus in bass: A Phrygian-D Phrygian
5. Trio: "Wenn meine Trübsal als mit Ketten," in D minor
6. Chorale: "Ob bei uns ist der Sünden viel," in E Phrygian

The keys used are similar to those in Cantata BWV 109, but now a falling circle of fifths rather than a rising scalar model determines their arrangement; the final chorale restores the original key.

It seems at least possible that Bach developed the idea for his structure from Luther's conception of Psalm 130 as the cry of a "truly penitent heart that is most deeply moved in its distress." Luther continues, emphasizing that sin and torment must be acknowledged before faith makes salvation possible: "We are all in deep and great misery, but we do not all feel our condition. . . Crying is nothing but a strong and earnest longing for God's grace, which does not arise in a person unless he sees in what depth he is lying. " Bach, like Luther, takes as his starting point the word "deep," to which he adds the dimension of the initial falling fifth of the chorale melody. Bach needed a sustained catabasis to create a tonal analogy to the experience of the "many depths" mentioned by Luther. This need is evident in the development of the melodic material of the aria and trio from the first line of the chorale. [Examples will appear on the BCW in the Score Samples for this cantata.] Although the A minor aria stresses hope in the midst of sorrow-and Bach represents it faithfully with melodic lines similar to the final movement of BWV 109 (on "Trostwort" and "sein Wort besteht")-the overall tonal direction nevertheless continues downward throughout the following two movements. The explanation for this seemingly contradictory procedure is found in Luther's commentary, which emphasizes the "blessing" of "contradictory and disharmonious things, for hope and despair are opposites"; we must "hope in despair" for "hope which forms the new man, grows in the midst of fear that cuts down the old Adam. " The catabasis must, of course, be interpreted as a positive force; it is the necessary "other side" of redemption; or, as John Donne, for example, expresses it, "therefore that he may raise the Lord throws down"

The trio of "Aus tiefer Not" presents first the image of our troubles forming the links in a chain that binds us until it is loosened by Christ, then that of the rising of the "morning" of faith amid the "night" of trouble and sorrow. Modulation in the flat and sharp directions associated with darkness and light respectively appears in several other works as well (e.g., Cantatas BWV 21, BWV 61, the "Christmas Oratorio"). The trio is pervaded by circle-of-fifths motion developed from the chorale-derived themes. Chains of suspensions precipitate a downward motion through the minor keys (d, g, c, f, then B flat [major]; mm. 17-38). The dawning of faith ("Wie bald erscheint des Trostes Morgen"; mm. 70-82), by contrast, reverses the direction upward, until the idea of the "night" of doubt and sorrow turns it back again (mm. 82-94). In this last section, however, the words "Wie bald erscheint des Trostes Morgen" return for a time (mm. 96-111), overlapping and forming a new counterpoint with the "night" melody (which is the same as the Trübsal melody at the beginning of the movement). The extension of the "Trostes Morgen" idea is sung to the melody of the ritornello, set to text now for the first time (mm. 96-108). Surely the flats are to be "redeemed" from their pejorative associations. Although on the whole the text of the trio voices a positive message, the absence of a regular da capo means that the movement ends with the "night" image; and the idea of catabasis remains with us through the final ritornello as well.

But Bach's ingenious combinations joined the night of trouble and sorow to the morning of trust. Because the psalm itself and, even more, Luther's exegesis emphasize two ideas at the end, Bach's plan likewise does not allow the prevailing catabasis to reverse itself before the very end. The first idea is the necessity of waiting-through the night watch: {Therefore the psalmist says: "I wait for the Lord; that is, in this crying and cross-bearing I did not retreat or despair; nor did I trust in my own merit. I trusted in God's grace alone, which I desire, and I wait for God to help me when it pleases Him.". . . That is, my soul always has its face directed straight toward and confidently awaits His coming and His help, no matter how it may be delayed.} As in Cantata 109, Bach's structure delays the full message of help until the last possible moment, the final chorale. The concluding idea of "Aus tiefer Not" is redemption at the hands of God: "That is, with Him alone there is redemption out of the many depths mentioned above, and there is no other redemption. Although our sin is great, yet His redemption is greater." The message of salvation is effected in the final chorale, "Ob bei uns ist der Sünden viel, bei Gott ist viel mehr Gnade." The chorale returns to the original E Phrygian, but not through anabasis, which might, in this case, suggest that salvation was attained by human effort; Luther stresses that we cannot "work our own way out." A transformation suddenly effects the shift of key for the final chorale: the final low D of the aria ritornello is retained in the bass as the chorale begins on an E major chord with the adversitive "Ob" ("although"). Thus, an initial dissonance in the new key, the D, symbol of Trübsal and Nacht, is given new meaning by the change.

Perhaps the most fascinating tonal allegory in this cantata appears in a movement that is not based on Luther's text but is derived directly from the Gospel. Between the aria and the trio Bach introduces a recitative that is constructed on the melody of "Aus tiefer Not" as a bass cantus firmus, taking its tonal departure from the preceding A minor aria. Its first Stollen is in A Phrygian, beneath the freely composed recitative text, "Ach! daß mein Glaube noch so schwach, and daß ich mein Vertrauen auf feuchtem Grunde muß erbauen!" From this point the ground shifts down to D Phrygian for the second Stollen and the entire Abgesang, for Bach an unprecedented procedure within a single cantus firmus statement. The beginning justifies the continuing catabasis: despite the "Trostwort" within the foregoing aria, faith remains weak. The second Stollen begins, "How often must new signs soften my heart?"-a line drawn from Jesus' words to the father of the healed boy in the Gospel for the day: "Wenn ihr nicht Zeichen and under seht, so glaubt ihr nicht" (John 4:48). The words "neue Zeichen" and "erweichen" suggest the concept of softening, which relates the shift to flats (G minor)
to the ancient usage of mollis to designate flat keys.

To appreciate how Bach emphasizes the word "signs," we must compare the Phrygian scales of A and D as they were understood in Bach's time. The variable third degree of the scale is usually used in its sharp form harmonically and in its unaltered form melodically, as in numerous Phrygian chorales such as "Herzlich tut mich verlangen" and "Aus tiefer Not." Here, to maximize the difference between the scale and its transposition, Bach sharpens the third degree, even though it alters the melody significantly; the result is a disparity of three pitches between the Phrygian scales on A and D: E/E flat, C sharp/C, and F/F sharp respectively. Bach then forms the diminished seventh chord on "Zeichen" with the aid of all three of the new signs, one sharp (F sharp), one flat (E flat)-the outer voices-and one natural (C); this, then, is the chord that, with its dominant function, brings about the G minor softening. Since John's Gospel is known as the "Book of Signs", and since the tonal plan of Bach's "St. John Passion" appears to have been conceived as a form of play on the three musical signs (i.e., sharp, flat, and natural key areas), this important detail in the plan of "Aus tiefer Not" perhaps possesses a wider significance, relating it to Bach's tonal-allegorical procedures in general.

Footnote: Many German music treatises of Bach's time list chorales according to the old modes. There is, of course, a thin line between a close on the dominant in a minor key (especially one of the Phrygian type) and a cadence intended to represent the Phrygian mode itself. Bach merges the two, especially when the cadence expresses a rhetorical question, and the duality or ambiguity regarding complete and incomplete closure is intended (see the final line of Cantata BWV 161, "How then can death harm me?"). The linking of the minor scale (especially the harmonic minor) the Phrygian mode, and a version of the same scale that begins on our dominant to the Hypophrygian can be found in Athanasius Kircher's "Musurgia universalis", p. 51; Kircher calls the scale of A harmonic minor, Phrygian (and places it in "cantus durus") and the sequence of E, F, G#, A, B fiat (I), C, D, E (also "cantus durus"), Hypophrygian.<<

quotation from pp. 218-223 (sans footnotes and musical examples) of Eric Chafe's "Tonal Allegory in the Vocal Music of J. S. Bach" University of California Press, 1991.

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 19, 2006):
BWV 38 Score samples - Chorale melody incipit links all mvts.

BWV 38 Score Samples

These are located at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV38-Sco.htm
(to enlarge the image, click once again on the sample you would like to view more closely)

It is becoming more and more apparent as we examine more closely the structure in Bach's cantatas s that the cohesion between all the mvts. as evidenced in this cantata (we have determined that the tenor aria is not a parody with an ill-fitted text, but that it was composed as part of this cantata) is enabled by a number of factors which Bach deliberately employed in helping to link all the mvts. One potential problem, the non-chorale text (mvt.4) was solved by quoting the entire chorale melody in the continuo (quite unusual), thus ensuring a sense of continuity where a verse of the chorale text is omitted. Is there, however, another way that Bach links all the mvts. musically aside from the catabasis arrangement of tonalities that Chafe refers to? Yes! It appears as though Bach made a deliberate effort to evolve the major motifs for each mvt. from the incipit of the chorale melody. The usual remarks by commentators include such explanations that the purely instrumental material as in the ritornelli when the vocalists are not singing is entirely unrelated to the chorale melody. A few commentators, however, have uncovered the missing links which are so frequently passed over because they are not always entirely obvious at first glance or immediately perceived by the listener who hears this music for the first time. At first, without referring to any such sources other than Dürr, who sometimes points these things out, I thought that there would be nothing to find beyond the obvious use of the CM in mvts. 1, 4, and 6. Then I found Friedrich Smend's indication that the initial motif from BWV 3 is based on the chorale melody incipit (Booklet IV, pp. 30-32 of Smend's "J. S. Bach Kirchenkantaten" Berlin, 1947.) Now the hunt was on with only the Terzetto and the 1^st recitative yet to be solved. Soon I found possible solutions for both mvts. Then, rather by chance, I discovered last night Eric Chafe's discussion of BWV 38, where on p. 220 of the book just recently quoted, there were Chafe's examples, including Smend's and some of the ones I had found on my own. Chafe, however, gives two examples from the vocal parts of the Terzetto which I had not found (all of these are
included in the score samples). By far the most difficult is mvt.2 (the alto recitative) which is not mentioned by either Smend or Chafe. It would seem odd for Bach, now that examples of the chorale melody incipit can be found in every other mvt., not to have any hint or indication of a similar CM link here. It will be left to the reader to decide just how far this linking method might be valid in a Bach cantata of this type.

In addition to the possible reference to the chorale melody, Mvt. 2 also has an example of 'circulatio', a musical figure employed by composers in the Baroque period. It is the aural equivalent of a circle said to represent the sun or God, but Bach seems also to have employed it in the sense of 'cross' which might fit here as the words being sung are about the sinful life of beings being tormented by Satan's lies and deception (the 'cross' that every human being must bear). In a 'circulatio, it is not necessary that the first and last notes be the same. Johann Gottfried Walther ("Musicalisches Lexicon..", Leipzig, 1732) defines this figure as beginning either with an ascending (the more common method) two-note pattern followed by two descending notes or vice versa. With Bach the pattern is often more like the sound pattern of B-A-C-H [(the B = Bb; H = B, of course); note the minor third (A and C surrounded by Bb and B) embracing in tonal scope from within, as it were, the diminished second {B and Bb} on either end of the figure] or as it appears here in Mvt. 2: ascending (rather than descending a half step from B to A) by a whole step from G to A, then descending/dropping by a minor third from A to F# (rather than ascending from A to C), and finally ascending once again by a whole step from F# to G# (rather than descending a half-step from C to B), thus not landing on the beginning note just as B-A-C-H does not as well. Looked at from another angle, the figure in Mvt. 2 is a retrograde/cancrizans image of the same sequence of intervals encountered in B-A-C-H. Naturally, the letters of the notes/tones transposed are different, but there seems to be some rather Bachian aspect involved with the location and sequence of the notes in question. Was this possibly a deliberate, but rather hidden inclusion that references indirectly Bach's name and connects it with the situation being described at this specific point in this recitative?

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 20, 2006):
BWV 38 - A specific type of cantata for a specific church?

BWV 38 A specific type of cantata for a specific church?

Konrad Küster, in his "Bach Handbuch", Kassel, 1999, p. 272, has the following interesting comment on BWV
38:

>>Als einziges Werk aus dem Herbst 1724 beginnt die Kantate [BWV 38], kaum zufällig als Nikolai-Kirchen-Werk, mit einer motettischen Choralbearbeitung..<<

("As the only work from the fall of 1724, the cantata [BWV 38], hardly by chance a work written for St. Nicholas Church [and not St. Thomas Church], begins with a motet-like chorale treatment..")

From various NBA KBs, I have examined a few facsimile pages from the cantata text booklets which Bach distributed for his performances in Leipzig. Some of these are located in the Saltykow-Stschedrin Library and were printed for the first time in the BJ in 1973. Some of these cantata texts are based upon Erdmann Neumeister's texts and the strong possibility exists that Bach did provide his own original music for them even though these cantatas have never been found or recorded as existing elsewhere.

The booklet titles indicate that these texts were specifically for the "Leipziger Kirchen=Music" [sacred music in Leipzig's main churches under Bach's jurisdiction] and covered certain periods of the liturgical year, as in the first instance, from the 3rd until the 6th Sunday after Trinity inclusive of the feasts of the Visitation of Mary Feast and St. John the Baptist's Day. Here are the titles for each:

5^th Sunday after Trinity (performance only at St. Nicholas Church)
"Der Segen des Herrn machet reich ohne Mühe" Opening Chorus
Recit, Aria, Aria, Chorale, Aria, Final Chorale

Visitation of Mary Feast (performed at the early service in St. Thomas Church, in the afternoon at St. Nicholas Church)
"Meine Seele erhebt den Herrn, und mein Geist freuet
sich Gottes meines Heilandes" (Opening Chorus)
Recit, Aria, Repeat of Opening Chorus ?

6^th Sunday after Trinity (performance only at St. Nicholas Church) "Wer sich rächet, an dem wird sich der Herr wieder rächen" (Opening Chorus) Recit, Aria, Recit, Aria, Final Chorale.

Both of these regular Sunday cantatas begin with 'dicta' ("Sprüche") based upon a biblical passage. Does this mean that these opening mvts. were more likely to be treated as a motet or in 'stile antico' fashion by Bach? Is there an association here between motets and St. Nicholas church (where, it appears the performances of motets from Bodenschatz's collection "Florilegium Portense" were more likely to be performed) and perhaps the more-difficult-to-sing figural music which Bach composed and performed with St. Thomas Church in mind?

Here, for comparison, is a listing of cantatas from similar cantata text booklets as the following one which was prepared for use in the Leipzig churches during the period of Pentecost and Trinity, 1731:

2^nd Feast Day of Pentecost [1731]
"Erhöhtes Fleisch und Blut" (BWV 173)
"Frühe zu St. Thomae, Nachmittags zu St. Nicolai"
("Early at St. Thomas Church, in the afternoon at St. Nicholas Church")

3^rd Feast Day of Pentecost [1731]
"Erwünschtes Freuden-Licht" ("In der Kirche zu St. Nicolai") [BWV 184]

On Trinity Sunday (Feast Day of the Holy Trinity) [1731]
"Frühe zu St. Thomae, Nachmittags zu St. Nicolai"

From a cantata text booklet from 1731 earlier that same year:

On Easter Sunday
"Der Himmel lacht! Die Erde jubiliret" [BWV 31]
"Frühe zu S. Nicolai, Nachmittags zu S. Thomae" ["ae" as a diglyph]

From a cantata text booklet [1724]:

On Quasimodogeniti Sunday
"Halt im Gedächtnis Jesum Christ" [BWV 67]
"In der Kirche zu St. Thomae" [the final ,e' appears as a superscript over the ,a']

On Misericordias Domini Sunday [1724]
"Du Hirte Israel höre" [BWV 104]
"In der Kirche zu S. Nicolai"

From a cantata text booklet also from 1724:
On Misericordias Sunday
"Der Herr ist mein getreuer Hirt" [BWV 112]
"In der Kirche zu S. Nicolai"

From a cantata text booklet from 1724:
On Easter Sunday
"Der Himmel lacht! Die Erde jubiliret" [BWV 31]
"Frühe in der Kirche zu St. Nicolai, und in der Vesper zu St. Thomae" [the final ,e' appears as a superscript over the ,a']

From a cantata text booklet from 1724:
On Estomihi Sunday
"Jesus nahm zu sich die Zwölfe" [BWV 22]
"In der Kirche zu S. Thom."

On the Feast Day of Mary's Annunciation [1724]
"Siehe, eine Jungfrau ist schwanger"
"Früh in der Kirche zu St. Thomae und in der Vesper zu St. Nicolai"

On the Feast Day of Mary's Purification [1724]
"Erfreute Zeit im neuen Bunde" [BWV 83]
"Früh in der Kirche zu St. Nicolai und in der Vesper zu St. Thomae"

On the Sunday Septuagesimae [1724]
"Nimm was dein ist, und gehe hin" [BWV 144]
"In der Kirche zu St. Thomae" [,ae' diglyph]

On the 4^th Sunday after Epiphany [1724]
"Jesus schläft, was soll ich hoffen" [BWV 81]
"In der Kirche zu St. Thomae". [,ae' diglyph]

On the 3^rd Sunday after Epiphany [1724]
"Herr, wie du willt, so schicks mit mir" [BWV 73]
"In der Kirche zu St. Nicolai"

On the Sunday after Epiphany (1724]
"Mein Gott, wie lang, ach lange" [BWV 155]
"In der Kirche zu St. Thomae" [,ae' diglyph]

These are the only facsimile cantata-booklet evidence for Sundays and holidays that I could find in the NBA KBs. From this evidence alone it would be difficult to deduce, as some commentators have indicated, that Bach's normal Sunday cantatas were performed regularly in both churches (St. Thomas and St. Nicholas). I would tend to take the evidence that these booklets provide quite literally: if it states St. Nicholas and not St. Thomas, I would accept this as a reasonable fact. The question that Konrad Küster raises is that Bach composed and performed cantatas that differed in style depending upon the designated location as indicated in the cantata booklets. Special church holidays {Christmas, Easter, etc.}, however, were obviously an important exception to the general rule). Any thoughts or observations regarding this?

Julian Mincham wrote (October 20, 2006):
[To Thomas Braatz] Many thanks for the highly interesting stuff you have elicited on various aspects of BWV 38. It is a work I know very well but I have still learnt quite a bit from your postings.

Thomas Braatz wrote (October 20, 2006):
I think I found part of the answer to the question that I had raised earlier about Konrad Küster's observation of a stylistic difference in the type of music for the St. Thomas as opposed to the St. Nicholas Churches in Leipzig during the early years of Bach's tenure in Leipzig.

This information comes from pp. 189-190 of Küster's "Bach Handbuch", Kassel, 1999. What follows is a summary of some of the ideas presented there:

1. Each one of the schools attached to St. Thomas and St. Nicholas Churches in Leipzig has a different focus and, as a result, ultimately serves a different purpose in the training of boys and young men who attend them. The Thomasschule has its main emphasis upon the humanities (with music playing a very important role) while the Nikolaischule, on the other hand, stresses science (with musical abilities not being considered important). This division is somewhat comparable to the division between Arts & Sciences at the university level in the USA. In Germany, for quite some time, the difference between the Gymnasia (high-schools) also distinguishes specific schools and the students attending them on a similar basis.

2. A division based upon the different stylistic conceptions held by the main political parties represented in the Leipzig City Council becomes apparent when understood from the background provided by the negotiations that transpired after Johann Kuhnau's death. Although the political parties agreed that church music should be modern, but not 'theatrical' in style, certain differences in what this actually meant stylistically can be ascertained. Each side spelled out the ideals over which it hoped to gain control and to prevail over the other faction.

3. The leader of one faction/party was the mayor, Gottfried Lange (of the courtly, absolutist party) for whom, or for whose party, Bach composed his more daring (difficult) figural music. St. Thomas Church and its associated Thomasschule placed great emphasis upon music and musical abilities.

4. The leader of the other faction/party was also a mayor, Abraham Christoph Plaz, (representing the other classes of society and the various guilds) held sway over the St. Nicholas Church and its associated school, the Nikolaischule. For this faction (and for the Nikolaikirche), Bach composed music which was more traditional. This faction was also more interested in making certain that Bach would carry out his traditional obligations in teaching subjects other than music as well.

5. Bach was aware of the political climate and what it required of him. If he conceived a pair of similar cantatas, one of which would receive its 1^st performance in the Thomaskirche, he would tend to develop the latter to a greater degree of difficulty -- or as in his 2nd yearly cantata cycle, he would formulate a type of cantata that could be used/developed as a series of cantatas of the same type for his primary choir. It cannot be asserted, however, that the cantatas that Bach composed with the St. Nicholas Church and School in mind are of a lesser quality. On the contrary, they are different in that they represent a stricter form of polyphony/counterpoint as found primarily before 1700 in Protestant Germany. The Nikolai cantatas simply have a different quality compared to those which Bach composed with the Thomaskirche and Thomasschule in mind.

6. The fact that some Feast-day cantatas were performed in both churches on the same day, does not affect this observation of the normal differences between cantatas composed for one church or the other. During such important liturgical Feast days, the musical presentations were of a more splendid, higher order in both churches.

7. The differences between the two major types of cantatas (those written for St. Thomas or those for St. Nicholas Churches) are noticeable only during the major effort in completing the composition of his yearly cycles. Later on, Bach was no longer concerned about maintaining this difference between musical styles of composition.

8. That Bach took into consideration the specific churches for which he composed his cantatas, Passions, motets, etc., has not yet been seriously considered by Bach scholars.

Peter Smaill wrote (October 16, 2006):
Thomas Braatz has raised an interesting question. Was Bach's choral output freely interchangeable between St Thomas and St Nicholas, the official town Church; or was there a particular bias, perhaps an archaism, favouring a conservative style as evinced by the motet commencement and modal style of BWV 38?

An insight that this may be so is to be gained by reading Melamed's "J S Bach and the German Motet". In St Nicholas is a large floridly-inscribed plaque nearing the spruch "Erforsche mich, Gott", which is not only the incipit of BWV 136 but also the title of a double choir motet (by Sebastian Knüpfer) elaborately rescored by Bach and, as with BWV 38, deploying colla parte trombones. The motet was originally composed in 1673 or 1674 for a member of the Aldershelm family, whose endowment paid for meals in St Thomas but also the singing of chorales in St Nicholas Church. The Aldershelms paid for the enormous plaque in that Church bearing the incipit.

The inference, though it is by no means certain, is that this archaic double choir motet rescored by Bach is particularly related to the Nikolaikirche. There is evidence, too, that the University Church (St Paul's, demolished by the DDR) particularly required the singing of Latin motets.

As with the reproduction of Rosenmüller's chorale, "Welt, ade, ich bin dein müde" and that of Daniel Vetter, "Herrscher uber Tod und Leben", Bach is in the reworking of Knüpfer's motet also paying tribute to a fellow musician of a preceding generation.

Neil Halliday wrote (October 20, 2006):
[To Thomas Braatz] Thomas, thanks for the article on Chafe's analysis of BWV 38.

From that article:
Thomas Braatz wrote:
<"Here (ie, in the chorale melody heard in the continuo of the 4^th movement), to maximize the difference between the scale and its transposition, Bach sharpens the third degree, even though it alters the melody significantly;">
This mostly explains the earlier difficulty I had with the tonality of this movement - with a C# appearing in the first part of the melody instead of the expected C, in the context of the already somewhat strange (to modern ears) Phrygian modality.

[For complete enjoyment of this cantata, one really needs to learn the chorale tune, so that it can then be easily followed, for example, in the polyphony of the opening chorus, where the soprano part (with the chorale tune) is sometimes at the same or a lower pitch than the altos, etc.]

Julian Mincham wrote (October 20, 2006):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< [For complete enjoyment of this cantata, one really needs to learn the chorale tune, so that it can then be easily followed, for example, in the polyphony of the opening chorus, where the soprano part (with the chorale tune) is sometimes at the same or a lower pitch than the altos, etc.] >
Good advice for a really good understanding of any of the 55 chorale fantasia cantatas. Get to know the chorale well and it is often the key to much of the rest of the work.

Bradley Lehman wrote (October 20, 2006):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< [For complete enjoyment of this cantata, one really needs to learn the chorale tune, so that it can then be easily followed, for example, in the polyphony of the opening chorus, where the soprano part (with the chorale tune) is sometimes at the same or a lower pitch than the altos, etc.] >
Maybe this is just picking at words: but, I never have "complenjoyment" of anything. There are always new things to find next time, and next time, and next time...especially when the material is as rich as Bach's compositional genius. Music is different every time it's encountered, because the performers and listeners are different people each time we come to it

I'd also point out that it's possible to enjoy music without necessarily picking out or recognizing the provenance of every single tune. Understanding may be enriched by such pursuits, but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with enjoyment more or less. Analytical picking and plucking at a score might well be its own reward, not affecting any measurable "enjoyment", so much as merely recognizing/appreciating the way a composition is put together around a cantus-firmus scaffolding (or whatever)....

Carry on!

Julian Mincham wrote (October 20, 2006):
Bradley Lehman wrote
< I'd also point out that it's possible to enjoy music without necessarily picking out or recognizing the provenance of every single tune. Understanding may be enriched by such pursuits, but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with enjoyment more or less. Analytical picking and plucking at a score might well be its own reward, not affecting any measurable "enjoyment", so much as merely recognizing/appreciating the way a composition is put together around a cantus-firmus scaffolding (or whatever).... >
Deep waters! Who knows if an individual's 'understanding' of what happens in the music (and that very phrase will mean different things to different people) enhances his/her enjoyment or not? Some people are deeply moved by music without knowing a single thing about it. Others may'understand' a lot about musical structures and grammar without being deeply moved by the essence of the musical expression. Others (and a lot of people I know have epressed the view that they find music more enjoyable when they have found out more about the way the composer has put it together) may very well feel that they gain more from a piece 'the better they know it'---and this is another phrase that is a hostage to fortune. Do we simply 'know it better' because we have heard it several times or because we have gained some insight into how the composer uses his materials? Or a combination of both? To what extent is age a factor? I know that pieces I loved when I was 20 I cannot now abide ---and vice versa.

Also for me there is an aesthetic enjoyment in discovering what a great composer has done technically and this pleasure is quite distinct from that gained from playing or hearing the work. But here is a further level of aesthetic appreciation to complicate matters further.

So, an area frought with problems--but the end result must be personal in every case.

Getting back to the suggestion of getting to know the chorale well as a part of exploring the wider work, I think this is a good suggestion simply because it is how I have approached a number of these works and for me, this has lead to both a greater understanding and an enhanced enjoyment of the music. It might work the same way for others--it may not. But I certainly wouldn't discourage people from such approaches if it works for them (as it seems to for at least two of us on list).

So no rules, simply personal explorations. And, as you say Brad, it is a bit nit picking since the essence of the meaning was clear, but I do agree that there is no such thing as 'complete enjoyment' simply because our perceptions of a piece alter with subsequent hearings and performances, age our own personal development etc etc.

Perhaps the word 'enhanced' is preferably to 'complete'?

But then in ten years time one might have gone off the piece anyway! Such is life!

Douglas Cowling wrote (October 20, 2006):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
< I'd also point out that it's possible to enjoy music without necessarily picking out or recognizing the provenance of every single tune. Understanding may be enriched by such pursuits, but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with enjoyment more or less. Analytical picking and plucking at a score might well be its own reward, not affecting any measurable "enjoyment", so much as merely recognizing/appreciating the way a composition is put together around a cantus-firmus scaffolding (or whatever).... >
In his lecture/performance of Cantata BWV 23 this week, Rilling took apart the tenor's accompanied recitative by first asking the tenor to stop singing and letting the strings and oboes play their their sustained acocmpaniment. He pointed out that the orchestra is playing the chorale which will be sung in the next movement. To reenforce the point, he asked the strings to play it again and added the sopranos singing the next chorale. A very effective and entertaining teaching aid.

Rilling and most of the other Bach authorities believe that these "hidden" chorales were apprehensible to the listeneres. Last year, when this point came up, I asked if these chorale allusions were in fact arcana and intended for the performers' edification alone. A couple of the speakers disagreed. In this cantata, the vocal recitative is very dramatic and commands the listener's attention totallly. Even when I was primed to hear the chorale, it still receded into accompaniment as the voice worked himself up.

Neil Halliday wrote (October 21, 2006):
BWV 38; structure of 1^st movement

[Note: The necessity of this approach, as an aid to listening to dense, complex music such as this, for enhanced enjoyment of the music, will undoubtably vary between individuals, as has already been suggested].

The followinng structure is derived from the score; with careful listening, one ought to be able to perceive (hear) these details, in the recordings.

Note: There are seven lines of text set to five chorale melody phrases. Each section of the CM in the soprano voice is introduced by the ATB voices such that the incipit of each of these voices heralds the CM in the soprano voice for each line (except where noted below), in the following order of entries:

1. T, A, B; ("Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir"), note (listen to) how the altos cross above the CM in this and following lines.

2. T, A, B; ("Herr Gott, erhör mein Rufen")

3. ("Dein gnädig Ohr' neig her zu mir") and
4. ("Und meiner Bitt sie öffne")
are musical repeats of 1 and 2; hence the first four lower-voice entries are all in the order T,A,B.

5. A (closely followed by B) B, T; ("Denn so du willt das sehen an"), note the basses begin with a more independent motive in quarter notes.

6. T, B, A ("Was Sünd und Unrecht ist getan"); here we have strong chromaticism with syncopation (after the incipits) in the lower voices.

7. T (closely followed by A) A, B; ("Wer kann, Herr, vor dir bleiben?"), note that the altos begin with a free motive largely of quarter notes. The piece ends with the altos singing above the sopranos over the length of the final six bars, while the sopranos hold the last note of the chorale, in a most effective harmonisation.

----

Interestingly, my enjoyment of the somewhat vigorous and forceful Richter performance [2] is increased remarkably by being aware of the above detail, all of which can be heard in his recording, despite the large forces.

Ed Myskowski wrote (October 24, 2006):
I started to write some brief thoughts on BWV 38 a few days back, just before Neil Halliday posted his comments on Mvt. 1. I had written this: thanks to everyone who posts comments re the music. All of them are informative for novices (like me) of any age, and I suspect there are many new ideas proposed for scholarly confirmation as well (discussion, argument, whatever): ultimately the peer review process).

I decided to pursue Neil's structural analysis, and defer final writing in order to combine my comments into a single post.

Alain Bruguieres wrote:
< Comment (mostly based on Dürr).
The libretto follows closely Luther's text : the nobleman's call for help in time of need (Mvt. 1), because of his faith in Jesus (Mvt. 2), is met with Jesus' comforting words (Mvt. 3); so that faith brings about salvation (Mvt. 5). Through his Grace, God will redeem us from our sins, many as they are (Mvt. 6). In a parenthesis (Mvt. 4), the libretto elaborates on the words of Jesus in the week's Gospel 'If you do not see signs and wonders, you do not believe', establishng a link between hymn and Gospel.. >
Reply (continued): I find this concise summary very helpful. Which prompts me to point out that even if you do see <signs and wonders>, that is not evidence, of itself, that you are on a correct path. Perhaps just the opposite? On the other hand, if your <signs and wonders> include hearing the music of Bach, you are probably OK, IMO. The Jahrgang II chorale cantatas are incredible music, hard to believe that most folks pass through the world without knowing it at all.

For BWV 38, I have the recordings which I now consider a basic set: Richter [2] and Leusink [5]. For various reasons, I added two more: Herreweghe [7] and Koopman [6]. Herreweghe because he often seems best (and always good) in the cantatas he has recorded, and because I fell for Marcel Ponseele on oboe on my first hearing him, earlier in the cycle. Koopman because Eric Bergerud remarked on several occasions on Koopman's use of female altos, and I decided to give a try to some of his efforts, corresponding to the current discussions.

I very seldom feel a need to recommend avoiding a recorded performance, and that is especially true in this case. If it is in your nature to look for details that could be improved, you can probably find some such in each of them. On the other hand, if your ultimate objective is to find performances that you can listen to and enjoy from beginning to end, every on of these will do. With caveats (Eng. tran: beware, or warnings)).

Neil has objected to Herreweghe's <swelling tone> [7] in some comments. And I objected to his objection, or at least did not hear what he was objecting to. It is noticeable in the Mvt. 1 chorus, what I would call subtle, but clearly intentional. Just to be on the safe side, probably intentional. How could he get it to happen without intent, and some significant work to boot? Given that, I am willing to take some time and further listening to let it settle in (or not). For the moment, I do not find it objectionable, but read the fine print if it might bother you.

More important are the many negative comments in the archives re Leusink [5], in general, and BWV 38 in particular. I cannot say they are incorrect. but I find them unfortunate, one-sided, and unnecessarily exaggerated. A specific example? Do a BCW search for yodelers and see what you get. I was deterred for a while from buying the set. I would just let it slide, but I notice similar comments from several others. Don't let this happen to you. If you are even remotely considering the Complete Bach, just do it.

You will probably not get a definitive performance of any particular piece. Or even a best recorded performance, although there are one or two that get at least a tentative preference (without hearing all performances).

What you will get are solid, professional performances, a complete reference set at incredible value. If you care to take the trouble, there is an interview with Leusink in the BCW archives where he states his objectives at some length, and responds to some of the criticisms of his recording practice, in particular the rigorous schedule. One of his objectives was to provide quality music at widely affordable price. It was reading that interview which convinced me to take a chance. It is not my intent to be a salesman, but I am happy with the purchase.

I am also happy with both Herreweghe [7] and especially Koopman [6], both of which marginally outrank Leusink [5] in most (but not all) details. One of the details which caught my attention on first listening was the S rec (Deborah York), Mvt. 4, in Koopman. The opening <Ach> is noticeably guttural, appropriately so to these non-Germanic ears. Agreement or correction from specialists invited. To me, it makes a perfect introduction to the rec and subsequent terzetto (Mvt. 5), and a coincidental opportunity to respond to the invitation to add more comments on recits. to the discussion. As is the female alto, Franziska Gottwald in Mvt. 2. I did not really notice until Eric pointed it out, that Koopman is often the only opportunity to hear altos in HIP performances. In this case, it zips by in less than a minute (0:50), but makes a very positive impact. I suppose no one will choose a particular recording on the basis of an A rec. Then again, why not?

One reason why not is that with Koopman [6] and the 3 CD packaging, you can't be very selective. And the selections are neither exactly chronologic, liturgical, nor BWV numeric, so you are destined to have some overlap, whether you want it or not. That said, the Koopman enthusiasts convinced me to give him a try, and I am favorably impressed.

That was about all I planned to say until Neil's concise and irresistible summary of Mvt. 1 came in. I found the BCW vocal and piano score both easily accessible and helpful in following the structure, so I cannot comment on the suggestion that the details can be heard without it. For me, even with the score, it was several listens to pick up all the details pointed out. Well worth the effort, thanks for providing the incentive! I think I would have found the crossing A and S lines difficult to recognize, even after they are pointed out, without the score to follow them.

My impression of discussions is that just about everyone on BCML has at least rudimentary music reading skills. I have not always found the on-line scores functional, and so don't always try them. Perhaps that is a problem at my end rather than with the site. In any case, comment with reference to the score is not just for the week, it is in the archives for the future as well. Thanks again for taking the trouble to provide it. It also made a fitting conclusion to preceding discussion and music examples of the chorale in BWV 38.

The chorale references, and musical examples, provided by Aryeh, and Tom Braatz are notable. I do not have a background to make significant commentary, but I do enjoy using them. Once the work is done, it remains available, even as the weekly commentary goes flashing by. First round commentaries remain invaluable, as well, whatever the controversies.

BWV 38 is notable for its older style chorale treatment, and the absence of traverso, as was BWV 2 for Trinity 2. Both are based on chorales from 1524. The significance of the date, leading to a bicentennial function for Jahrgang II in 1724, is suggested by Robin Leaver in OCC: Bach (p. 86). The contrasts with BWV 115 coming up, including traverso and vc piccolo are all the more remarkable.

IMO, you will not go wrong with a Richter performance [2], unless you are totally HIP. BWV 38 is no exception. Neil has already advised that the counterpoint details are easily heard in the chorus. The soloists in arias and recs. are always classic, and enjoyable, even if someone more modern and subtle is preferable. It hardly seems fair to make direct comparisons of performance practices across a generation (30 years or more) time gap. Edith Math's, Peter Stirrer, and DFDieskau remain standards for their era; Trudeliese Schmidt is less known (to me, anyway) but no less outstanding. The same crew peon BWV 115, coming right up, Eric.

There ae no faults to find (by me) with the chorus performance by Leusink [5], Herreweghe [7], or Koopman [6]. I have a slight preference for Koopman, but perhaps just that it is newly arrived. When I first listened to Leusink, the immediate impression was delicacy and clarity. Perhaps when all is said and done, that is closest to what Bach might have achieved?

Cantata BWV 38: Complete Recordings | Recordings of Individual Movements | Discussions: Part 1 | Part 2

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