Continue from Part 1

The Oboe family and JS Bach

Ludwig wrote (May 11, 2005):
Oboe sounds at written pitch
The baroque oboe as it was used at the end of the 17^th century had its origin in such Renaissance instruments as the bombards, the shawms and the pifferi. Originally one of a family of instruments, the soprano oboe was the principal oboe that was still in use at the end of the 17^th century. As was also the case with practically every other woodwind instrument at that time, its conical bore became narrower and its exterior became increasingly elaborate (cf. The recorder) with decorative mouldings and circlets. It was at first an orchestral instrument, particularly so in France but it soon went on to establish its own repertory in chamber music and sacred music. The oboe was also very popular in Italy, while J.S. Bach was to make it one of the instruments he used most frequently for obbligato lines in his cantata arias. The two keys are used to overcome a limitation of fingering (for the low C) and to improve the quality of a note in the lower register (for the E flat).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oboe d'amore in A | more ...
sounds a minor third below written pitch This is a typically German instrument that dates from the first half of the 18^th century, it being an oboe in A that sounds a third lower than the normal oboe. It also possesses a bell shaped bulge at its lower end that gives the instrument its characteristically warm timbre. It was mainly used as a solo instrument in chamber music although J.S. Bach also used it as an obbligato instrument in cantata arias.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cor Anglais in F (English Horn)
sounds a perfect fifth lower than written pitch The baroque equivalent of the cor anglais was the alto oboe known in France as the taille de hautbois. It was first used in the second half of the 17^th century in the French ensembles known as the bandes de hautbois, in which it played the inner lines of polyphonic compositions. J.S. Bach was also to make use of it when a low pitched oboe was needed to double the viola parts in the cantatas.

The oboe da caccia
The oboe da caccia, always referred to by its Italian name, appears frequently in works by J.S. Bach. It is also quite probable that Bach himself caused this particular type of oboe to be built. Several years ago various pieces of an instrument were discovered in the collections of the Copenhagen Instrumental Museum; these were carefully assembled and this enigmatic instrument was the result. It had a double reed, it was bigger than the normal oboe and had a curved body whose separate components were held together by a strip of leather, the whole ending in a metallic bell. What was more, it was noted with great surprise that the instrument had been first made by Eichentopf, the most well-known instrument maker of Leipzig of Bach's time. The puzzle over exactly what type of instrument Bach's oboe da caccia was had finally been solved. The oboe da caccia sounds a fifth lower than the normal oboe and can thus be linked with the alto oboe in F.

Joel Figen wrote (May 11, 2005):
Ludwig wrote:
< Oboe sounds at written pitch >
In the BGA score for BWV 131, the oboe and bassoon parts are transposed up a tone relative to the other parts, as they would be for a modern Bb clarinet. I have to assume, provisionally, that this is the original scoring, since no sane editor would do that unless (he thought) it was Bach's choice. This leaves several possible explanations:

1. Bach's oboe and bassoon were transposing instruments.

2. Bach's oboe and bassoon were tuned to Kammerton, while the strings tuned to Chorton.

3. Bach had special instruments built

I'd put my money on Kammerton/Chorton, but the other possibilities are at least worth looking at. The sound of reed instruments changes noticeably with a change of size equal to a full tone, or even a half tone. This may be more true for the clarinet family than for double reeds, but still, I'm keeping an open mind.

Douglas Cowling wrote (May 11, 2005):
Joel Figen wrote:
< 3. Bach had special instruments built
I'd put my money on Kammerton/Chorton, but the other possibilities are at least worth looking at. The sound of reed instruments changes noticeably with a change of size equal to a full tone, or even a half tone. This may be more true for the clarinet family than for double reeds, but still, I'm keeping an open mind. >
I recall a very interesting article in one of the Harnoncourt LP cantata sets about Bach's commissioning the building of various alto and tenor wind instruments from a Leipzig builder. In one case, the very instrument built for Bach may be in a Swedish museum.

As a sidebar ... Is there any evidence that Bach ever used an early clarinet/chalmeau (sp)? Both Vivaldi and Händel did.

Bradley Lehman wrote (May 11, 2005):
Re oboes, oboes d'amore, oboes da caccia, etc, and their use in transpositions in Bach cantatas: see Bruce Haynes's article "Questions of Tonality in Bach's Cantatas: The Woodwind Perspective" in Journal of the American Musical Instrument Society 12 (1986), pp40-67.

< As a sidebar ... Is there any evidence that Bach ever used an early clarinet/chalmeau (sp)? Both Vivaldi and Händel did. >
Not that I'm aware of. There are also some delightful chalumeau concerti by Telemann, and ensemble music by Christoph Graupner: Amazon.com
A delightful disc that--unfortunately--might be out of print. By the way, the Amazon title there "Trio for bassoon, chalumeau and piano" is incorrect; it's harpsichord, not piano.

Joel Figen wrote (May 11, 2005):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
< Re oboes, oboes d'amore, oboes da caccia, etc, and their use in transpositions in Bach cantatas: see Bruce Haynes's article "Questions of Tonality in Bach's Cantatas: The Woodwind Perspective" in Journal of the American Musical Instrument Society 12 (1986), pp40-67. >
I don't have access to this publication. Could you give a brief summary? Is it perhaps available online?

Charles Francis wrote ():
[To Joel Figen] Regarding BWV 131, Haynes notes that the "Obboe" and "Fagotto" are notated in a -minor in the autograph score. He points out that a performance in Chorton-g as indicated in the BG will take the solo part on the hautboy below its range by one note, and will include low c#1, which is virtually unplayable. He notes that the original notation in Cammerton-a exactly fits the range of the hautboy (c1 to d3).

Bradley Lehman wrote (May 11, 2005):
[To Joel Figen] Interlibrary Loan!

A quick abstract, abstracted from it:
- Chorton/Cammerton general issues before and into Bach
- Discussion of 17 Bach cantatas where the woodwind pitch discrepancies are acute in the existing editions (as of 1986)
- Discussion of the woodwind instruments in turn
- Discussion of key-colorations and Affekt, along with practical issues of transpositions
- "Hidden" oboe d'amore parts that simply say "oboe"
- Statistical analysis of oboe tonalities in Bach, Telemann, and Händel
- Suggested practical solutions for each of those cantatas, in turn

Thomas Braatz wrote (May 11, 2005):
[To Charles Francis] This may have been part of the reason why the NBA I/34 printed version of its rendition of the score of BWV 131 opted to present all the parts in Cammerton. The original notation of the woodwinds was in Cammerton-a so all the rest of the instruments that were originally notated in Chorton were then notated to agree with the woodwinds. [Explained on p. 36 of NBA I/34 KB.]

Thomas Braatz wrote (May 11, 2005):
Bradley wrote:
>>see Bruce Haynes's article "Questions of Tonality in Bach's Cantatas: The Woodwind Perspective" in Journal of the American Musical Instrument Society 12 (1986),pp40-67.
A quick abstract, abstracted from it:
Chorton/Cammerton general issues before and into Bach - Discussion of 17 Bach cantatas where the woodwind pitch discrepancies are acute in the existing editions (as of 1986)- Discussion of the woodwind instruments in turn- Discussion of key-colorations and Affekt, along with practical issues of transpositions - "Hidden" oboe d'amore parts that simply say "oboe"- Statistical analysis of oboe tonalities in Bach, Telemann, and Händel - Suggested practical solutions for each of those cantatas, in turn<<
Much of this work by Bruce Haynes has recently been seriously questioned by Ulrich Prinz in his "J. S. Bachs Instrumentarium" [Bärenreiter/Internationale Bachakademie Stuttgart, 2005.] Prinz is also very concerned about Haynes' unproven hypotheses (expressed more recently in the MGG2 (1998) and accepted uncritically in S. Rampe's and D. Sackmann's "Bach-Lexikon [Laaber, 2000) and spread about by Matthias Hengelbrock and Detmar Huchting "in abenteuerlichen, unbewiesenen Behauptungen und groben Verallgemeinerungen" ["in fantastic, unproven assertions and crude generalizations"] p. 19. One example of this given on the same page is Hengelbrock's statement: "Clifford Bartlett has presented/explained/stated that Bach, in the very early years of his Leipzig tenure, has used wind instruments using the French Cammerton (c. 393 Hz), which later on was no longer available to him [Bach.] Thereupon Prinz e-mailed Clifford Bartlett and received a prompt reply on the same day: "I am puzzled: I've never written anything at length on the E-flat Magnificat, though I have published an edition on it...."

Huchting wrote elsewhere: "During the first years of Bach's tenure in Leipzig [the E-flat version of the Magnificat is from 1723] Bach had at his disposal instruments which were in French Cammerton - this pitch at c. 392 Hz. was a semitone lower than the usual Cammerton A=415 Hz...Later on Bach had different instruments which were tuned to German Cammerton...It ought to be a prerequisite of an institution, such as that of the Bachakademie which claims to be knowledgeable in these matters , to be familiar with the most recent research."

Prinz then refers to Arnold Schering's statement from his book on Bach's Leipzig Church Music [1936] where Schering states in regard to the few isolated instances where 'Tief-Kammerton' was used: "Bach scheint alsbald für die Beseitigung solcher lästigen Unstimmigkeiten gesorgt zu haben" {Bach seems to have taken care to remove quickly such bothersome inconsistencies/discrepancies - {literally, the fact that the instruments are not easily tuned to play together properly.}"]

Bradley Lehman wrote (May 11, 2005):
[To Thomas Braatz] I've taken the liberty of forwarding this piece of innuendo-filled public ridicule (below) to Dr Haynes. The allegation about "uncritical acceptance" of his work is particularly flagrant, in my personal opinion. As if Dr Haynes has simply fed everybody a snow-job for his whole career, or something?

As for Dr Prinz himself being used as an action figure to beat up another scholar, here, who knows.

Charles Francis wrote (May 11, 2005):
[To Joel Figen] Regarding BWV 131, Haynes notes that the "Obboe" and "Fagotto" are notated in a -minor in the autograph score. He points out that a performance in Chorton-g as indicated in the BG will take the solo part on the hautboy below its range by one note, and will include low c#1, which is virtually unplayable. He notes that the original notation in Cammerton-a exactly fits the range of the hautboy (c1 to d3).

Bradley Lehman wrote (May 12, 2005):
[To Charles Francis] And this is what I get for recommending an excellent scholarly article (plus its bibliographic citation), directly from the subject line of "The Oboe family and JS Bach", and presenting a fair summary/abstract of its points.

<this part of the message was deleted>

Nevertheless, steering the thread back to a positive direction: Bruce Haynes is a top expert performer on Baroque oboes and their relatives; and he knows what he's talking about; and he's a well-respected expert on matters of pitch (especially in Bach's and related music); and this article by him is an excellent resource, standard in the literature. I'm personally very fond of his recording of Bach's cantata BWV 82, sung by van Egmond and conducted by Brüggen. And I also believe that his classic set of the Händel wind sonatas (Sony 2-CD set) has never been surpassed for beautiful musicianship.

Thomas Braatz wrote (May 12, 2005):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
>>As a sidebar ... Is there any evidence that Bach ever used an early clarinet/chalmeau (sp)? Both Vivaldi and Handel did.<<
None whatsoever!

Re: Chalumeau

See previous discussion at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVD/BWV988-Quodlibet.htm

The evidence (MGGI article by Heinz Becker) suggests:

1. No connection with Bach has ever been identified

2. No formal music (a recognized composer who specified it to be used in an ensemble) existed for it before 1700.

3. It had a rustic, folk origin (played by peasants)

4. It had a single reed

5. It was extremely loud (note reactions by Mattheson and Berlioz in the reference above)

6. It had a very limited high range of barely over a single octave

7. It served as a springboard for Johann Christoph Denner (1655-1707- primarily Nürnberg) c. 1700 and thereafter (also later his sons, Jakob Denner 1681/2-1735 and Johann David Denner 1692-1764 - one source claims the latter was named Matthäus) to develop the clarinet in stages by modifying the body, adding keys and extending the range of the instrument (as one theory has it, Denner was trying to find a replacement to play the extremely difficult clarino (high trumpet) parts with greater ease; however, with all these major changes by various family members, the result was that it did not sound like a chalumeau anymore, nor could it replace a clarino trumpet in effect.)

8. From the beginning of the 18^th century, chalumeaux and clarinets are used in compositions and often are played by the same musician, but nevertheless they were very different instruments in volume, range, sound quality, etc.

9. The chalumeau is not recorded in any musical dictionary or reference book until Johann Gottfried Walther's "Musicalisches Lexicon." and J.F.B.C. Majer's "Museum Musicum" both published in 1732. Here two types of chalumeaux are mentioned: a) an instrument with 7 holes in front having a range from f' to a'' b) a similar instrument having a thumbhole in the back and two diametrically opposing keys above the thumbhole with a range from f' to a'' (b'', c''') with the latter high 'C' reached by forcing the tone. Majer comments: "der Ambitus erstrecket sich nicht viel über eine Oktave" ["the range is not much more than an octave."] Majer also commented that the chalumeau, which »absonderlich ratione des schweren Ansatzes sehr hart zu blasen« ["particularly because of its difficult 'lipping'"] was very difficult to get into the higher octave by blowing more strongly. "Merkwürdigerweise haben sich keine echten Chalumeaux in Instrumenten-Sammlungen erhalten." ["Remarkably no true chalumeaux are to be found in any collections of instruments that have come down to us."]

10. Compositions for chalumeaux:

M.A. Ziani, Caio Pompilio, 1704; the music publisher Roger in Amsterdam printed 'Fanfares de chalumeau à 2 dessus,' 1706; A.M. Bononcini, Conquista delle Spagne, 1707; A. Ariosti, Marte placato, 1707; R. Keiser, Croesus, 1710;

11. Chalumeaux were transposing instruments appearing in C notation but also in a high G ('dessus'). Georg Philipp Telemann notated a cofor 2 chalumeaux in high G.

12. Mattheson, in 1713, refers to their use as a 'choir' of instruments to be played outdoors only and to be best heard from a great distance. They were also played from church towers in Nürnberg at the beginning of the 18th century.

[The first theoretical reference to clarinets were recorded byh J. G. Doppelmayr (1730) who indicated that Denner had created/invented 'a new type of pipe' at the beginning of the 18th century and that this 'was hailed by music lovers who derived great pleasure in hearing this instrument as an improvement over the chalumeau.' Georg Philipp Telemann used the early form of the clarinet in one of his cantatas belong to the yearly cycle in Frankfurt in 1721. Unfortunately the rest of the history of the clarinet would be OT here.]

The several types of oboe

Bradley Lehman wrote (June 1, 2007):
< Can you tell me anything about the two types of oboes that frequently show up in Bach works? >
Two, or three: oboe, oboe da caccia, and oboe d'amore! They're different sizes, have somewhat different tone, and play in different keys.

Rerunning some of my remarks from 4/10/06, about an excellent article on this topic:

Bruce Haynes's 1986 article "Questions of Tonality in Bach's Cantatas:
The Woodwind Perspective"
http://www.qub.ac.uk/music-cgi/bach2.pl?22=11689
offers on page 53:

"One other question of tonality concerns pieces with 'hidden' oboe d'amore parts. Bach was not always careful to specify this instrument when he intended it to be used. There are a number of 'oboe' parts in sharp keys that go below the range of the hautbois ordinaire, indicating that the parts were meant for the oboe d'amore. Bach's
oboists, handy on a variety of different instruments, would have automatically understood this without special instructions. Pieces with hidden oboe d'amore parts are to be found in Cantatas BWV 17, BWV 29, BWV 45, BWV 94, BWV 169, BWV 193, BWV 214, and BWV 215. In addition, some pieces in the second oboe part to the St John Passion are more convenient on oboe d'amore, though not all of these are indicated."