Cantata BWV 130 - Discussions

Brilliant Classics - Bach Cantatas Vols. 3&4

Johan van Veen wrote (February 23, 2000):
[8] Some time ago I have already written about some of the cantatas from the latest sets in the Brilliant Classics Bach Edition. Since then I have listened to these two sets more extensively, and I am going to give my opinion on them. Hopefully others will give theirs.

The first two sets have been criticised by several people in this newsgroup. Are these two sets (volumes III and IV) any better? In some respects they are. There is some improvement in the performances of Bas Ramselaar. I also liked Nico van der Meel better than in the previous sets. The orchestra and choir give some very vivid performances of a couple of opening choruses. In other respects there isn't. As said before, Ruth Holton remains her unexpressive self. I can't see real progress in Knut Schoch's performances either. There are the usual differences between the text as printed (the NBA-text) and the text that is sung. The booklets haven't improved - on the contrary: in contrast to the first two sets, these two volumes have booklets with lots of printing errors.

Some cantatas are done quite well. For example BWV 130: the opening chorus (Herr Gott, dich loben alle wir) with its large-scale instrumentation of oboes, trumpets and timpani, is very good, as is the very forceful bass-aria 'Der alte Drache brennt vor Neid', which Bas Ramselaar sings very well. But how on earth is it possible that in the recitative 'Wohl aber uns' - which is a duet of soprano and tenor - the tenor sings 'erfährt' with Umlaut (which is correct) and the soprano without? Did nobody hear that? It is just another example of the lack of precision, which characterises these recordings. This has nothing to do with views on interpretation, but simply with people (whoever) not doing their homework. It is characteristic for this recording project that the results are very uneven. When cantata BWV 130 is done so well, then why is cantata BWV 81 (on the same disc) so tame? Knut Schoch can't cope with the leaps in the storm aria 'Die schäumenden Wellen' and the orchestra is just too subdued in both this aria and the bass aria 'Schweig, aufgetümtes Meer'. There are many examples of this lack of consistency. As far as Ruth Holton is concerned: she doesn't show any improvement. (snip)

The orchestra is good, but often too colourless. In Bach's music the instruments have to illustrate and interpret the text, together with the singer/choir. That's where the orchestra, with all its qualities, regularly fails. I can't understand why the sinfonias - in particular the organ solo's - in the solo cantatas BWV 35 and BWV 169 are so lacklustre and unimaginative. And it isn't that difficult to be expressive when you can make a lot of noise, like in the opening chorus of BWV 130. It is more difficult with strings only - and there the shortcomings are all too clear. On the whole: a mixed package, with some things to enjoy, but there is still a long way to go (and maybe tough decisions to make) to produce a really convincing edition, which is able to compete in any way with the editions that are on the market or coming.

Favourite Bach Arias

Darryl Clemmons wrote (March 21, 2000):
(snip) Actually, I like the trumpets from Cantata BWV 130 also - especially in the bass aria. However, I don't think the vocal line is equal to the accompaniment. Maybe I need to listen to a version with a more accomplished singer, I don't know. (snip)

Charles Francis wrote (March 21, 2000):
(To Darryl Clemmons, regarding BWV 130) (snip) You clearly like loud drums and the trumpet-drum combination is clearly irresistible to you. I think you're a closet Beethoven/Wagner fan infiltrating the Bach group.

Discussions in the Week of September 24, 2000

Aryeh Oron wrote (September 24, 2000):
Background

This is the week of cantata BWV 130 according to Ryan Michero's suggestion. For some background about this festive cantata, I shall quote W. Murray Young (from his book - 'The Cantatas of J.S. Bach - An Analytical Guide'):

"For the Feast of St. Michael, this is Bach's last complete extant cantata. It follows BWV 19 and BWV 149 in having its libretto derived from Revelations 12: 7-12 - Michael vanquishes Satan and his hosts and casts them out of heaven. The unknown librettist took Paul Eber's hymn for this Sunday, retained verses one, eleven and twelve for the opening and closing chorales, and paraphrased the other verses for his poem. This chorale cantata praises God for creating angels to protect us from the wiles of Satan. The soli are SATB, with four-part chorus. The orchestra has three trumpets, timpani, a traverse flute, three oboes, two violins, a viola and continuo."

Personal Viewpoint

Most of the writers about the cantatas attribute 1724 as the year in which BWV 130 was composed by JSB. Therefore I believe that when Young wrote that the year of this cantata's composition was 1740, and that 'this is Bach's last complete extant cantata', he was actually mistaken. But it is interesting to know what is really 'Bach's last complete extant cantata' according to the most updated research. I hope that somebody from the group will be able to give us an answer.

Complete Recordings

See: Cantata BWV 130 – Recordings.

(1) Fritz Werner (1961)
I have this recording on LP only, and was not able to listen to it for this review. When I have it transferred to CD form, I shall write to the group about my impressions from the recording.

[2] Ernest Ansermet (1969?)
I do not have this recording.

(3) Helmuth Rilling (1974?)
[4] Karl Richter (1975+1976+1978)
(5) Nikolaus Harnoncourt (1983)
[8] Pieter Jan Leusink (1999)

Recordings of individual Movements

(M-1) Herman Kreutz (1968; opeaning (Mvt. 1) & concluding (Mvt. 6) chorales only)
(M-3) Elmer Iseler (1985; opeaning (Mvt. 1) & concluding (Mvt. 6) chorales only)

Review of the Recordings

For the review of the recordings of BWV 130, I was able to listen to only 4 recordings (3 to 6 above) of the 6 I know of. I shall compare movements 1, 3, 4 and 5. As a reference for each movement I shall allow myself using Young's writing again.

Mvt. 1. Chorale
"This chorale and instrumental fantasia resembles a song of thanksgiving to God after a victory, yet has superimposed theme, which depicts the battle itself in the melody. Sparkling trumpet flourishes and the rhythmic boom of drums portray a triumphant march after the battle. All instruments play this theme as a prelude and after the choir has completely sung the stanza, as well as in the ritornelli after each line. The cantus firmus is given to the sopranos, while the other parts enter in imitation for each line."

(3) The orchestral introduction of Rilling's recording is sparkling with bright and the entry of the chorus is warm and enthusiastic. The victory march is portrayed with pride and self-confidence.

[4] Hearing Richter's recording of the opening Chorale immediately after Rilling's cause it to sound somewhat pedantic and stiff. However, it is impressive in its way. Everything is done with large scale. The victory is a big victory, the march is walked with big steps, etc.

[5] Harnoncourt's opening Chorale is a disappointment. It is not festive at all. The drum's beating is too strong and dominatieverything. It disturbed me from hearing the other elements of this glorious Chorale.

[8] Leusink's recording move forcefully, quickly and lightly ahead. Not very much attention is given to details. It also lacks some volume and weight, the balance between the various components is not good, and most of the dramatic content of this Chorale in not revealed.

There are two recordings of the opening and closing chorales only, without the rest of the cantata. The Elmer Iseler's (M-3) opening Chorale is big scale and vague. The internal voices do not come out. The Herman Kreutz' recording (M-1) uses smaller forces and consequently the picture becomes clearer. I think that the problem with both recordings is that not too much care was taken to understand the textual and musical content of this movement. Both groups sing it as a mere choral piece with instrumental accompaniment.

Mvt. 3. Aria for Bass
"The three trumpets and timpani support his vocal lines without obscuring them. Bach thus produces a vivid tone-painting of Satan at work. The rhythm in the vocal delivery and in the melody represents the incessant battle against the plots of the devil."

(3) Wolfgang Schöne (with Rilling) singing is assured and impressive. Nobody can conquer him, even not the Devil and his messengers, as represented here by the three bright and virtuosic trumpeters. You can try, but I shall stick to my way.

[4] I do not believe that Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (with Richter) has to be sold to anybody. But he is so much identified with other musical areas, such as Lieder and Opera, that we tend to forget how good can he sing a Bach aria. With such rich tool, infinite means, and dramatic sense, he has all the weapons needed to conquer easily any menace from the devil, portrayed here splendidly by the 3 glowing trumpets (are they actually the three witches from Macbeth?).

(5) Walter Heldwein (with Harnoncourt) is not convincing. In any way the balance between the singer and the accompaniment is problematic, because it favors the accompaniment above the singer. There is not real interaction between them. The playing of the trumpets is painful.

[8] Bas Ramselaar (with Leusink) is doing his best in the task thrown on him, and he is convincing in conveying the message that he can compete successfully with the evil forces. However the trumpets' playing here is not clean enough and does not supply a real challenge for the singer. On the other hand, although it was done probably unintentionally, the unorganized playing of the trumpets may reflect the disorder created by the evil forces.

Mvt. 4. Recitative (Duet) - Soprano, Tenor
"This is the first time his extant cantatas that Bach has set a recitative for duet, and he does it very well, with the two voices singing in beautiful imitation. The protective role of the angels is mentioned in their text - two parts of the Old Testament - Daniel 6: 16 and 3: 1-30."

(3) Kathrin Graf (with Rilling) is not as good soprano singer as both Arleen Augér and Helen Donath (the usual Rilling's Soprano singers) are. But her voice here is blending beautifully with the good and reliable Kraus, who seems always to be in full service of the music and the text. He is completely unselfish, never sees himself as more important than his mission.

[4] In Richter's recording we have Mathis and Schreier in a duet. How can it not be good? They sang many years together in various settings. I have for examples a charming LP of them singing Brahms' songs, and although I have not listened to it for quite a long time, I remember it very favorably. Here they listen most attentively to each other, follow sensitively each other lines, and their voices blend beautifully together. This couple was created in heaven.

(5) The voices of Kurt Equiluz and the boy soprano (with Harnoncourt) simply do not match, although the voice of the boy is relatively competent. And they are not helped by the continuo, which interferes with their singing.

[8] This is, of course, not the first time that Ruth Holton and Knut Schoch (with Leusink) are singing together. I love the way their voices are melting together.

Mvt. 5. Aria for Tenor
"The accompanying traverse flute obbligato plays a gavotte-like tune with joy-motif reminiscent of the pastoral fields of heaven. We can imagine the Prince of angels surrounded by the angelic host and wish that we too, as believers, may like wise be conveyed to Him by the chariot of Elias."

(3) Who can refuse to the plea of Adalbert Kraus (with Rilling)? The flute (played by Peter-Lukas Graf) is ringing with joy, twisting with sinuous lines, sounds more earthy than heavenly. But who does really know how instruments ought to be sound in heaven? Maybe everything there is magnified to sound larger than life, like the impression given by the flute playing in this aria.

[4] Peter Schreier and Karl Richter approach to this aria is very similar to that of Kraus and Rilling. However, Schreier here is a little bit more touching than Kraus, where Aurèle Nicolet's flute playing is more lyrical and pastoral than that of Graf, and consequently I found myself preferring this rendering over the previous one.

(5) The aria for tenor is the best part in Harnoncourt's generally disappointing recording. The flute playing is charming and supplies a convenient background to Equiluz' adorable singing.

[8] Knut Schoch (with Leusink) has a lyric voice with very sweet timbre. This kind of voice suits very well the heavenly atmosphere of this aria with angels around. The tender and humble playing of the flute is portraying beautifully the pastoral fields. This rendering is not as dramatic as Schreier and Kraus are, but it is no less convincing in its gentle way. This is the best movement in Leusink's recording of this cantata, as well as the best rendering of this movement among the recordings of this cantata I have heard.

Conclusion

Cantata BWV 130 is impressive, although it does not have any really captivating movement. Although all the recordings of this cantata can please, when we come to magnificent festive cantatas, like BWV 130, nobody does it better than Karl Richter [4]. The lush grandeur and the expansive sound of the choir and the beauty of orchestral palette cause most of the other recordings to sound pale in comparison. The operatic background, but also many years of Bach singing, of Richter's singers, results in dramatic performances in which most of the potential qualities of the cantata come forth. Those of you, who limit themselves to only HIP recordings, are losing a great and satisfying performance.

And as always, I would like to hear other opinions, regarding the above mentioned performances, or other recordings.

Marie Jensen wrote (September 24, 2000):
A cantata about angels!

Angels, Gods messengers and celestial servants, described in so many ways in religious scripts, in music and in art as anything between Gods inconvicable soldiers with flaming swords to cute playing "putti". And here in cantata BWV 130 I feel we meet them both.

I don't know if Michaelmas (September the 29^th) is celebrated any more in Lutheran churches. I cannot find a Bible text for the day but Daniels Book and The Revelation tell about the archangel Michael fighting against the devil symbolized by a dragon. Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Revelations 12: 7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[8] This cantata is a Leusink interpretation, that I like very much. The battle music in the opening chorus and in the bass aria with drums and trumpets is like real military music encouraging and unpolished. The fresh sound of Netherlands Bach Collegium is great for this purpose. The cantata opens and ends with chorales, so it is an easy task for the choir who has to learn everything in a hurry. And last but not least: Bas Ramselaar does a very fine job in "Der alte Drache..."

This "Alte Drache" aria fascinates me. First of all not a word of Michael is mentioned in the text, only the dragon (devil) is described. But no doubt the battle goes on with energy and weapons lightning, and Michael is the winner. Even if the devil is not heard very much, he is there. With heavy steps he enters the stage from the very beginning, and a few times it seems like he takes over: When "daß er das kleine Haüflein trennet" is played, the glorious trumpet sound is gone. In stead the trumpets only play a note in the beginning of each bar, symbolizing the devil separating the flock. Also series of 11 identical dissonant notes are played more times, and like the devils attacks they often come as a surprise. Suddenly they are there! Wonder if the number of Antichrist (666) can be found anywhere? Perhaps Bach as a Christian man did want to place it, but on the other hand he used to practice numerological stunts. The 11 notes is the closest I can get to it... But why search for the devil? Michael's victory is clearly heard and after that we enter a peaceful world: A very beautiful duet recitativo leads us into a peaceful celestial painting: "Laß o Fürst der Cherubinen". Even if Michael is praised here along with "Elias Wagen" I cannot help seeing flocks of "putti": the kind baby angels so typical in art of those days. A flute plays with grace in front of heavenly light blue skies.

Finally not only one but two stanzas of a chorale are sung to end this very variated and wonderful cantata.

(5) PS This morning the radio sent a version of BWV 130 with Leonhardt Consort. Don't know if it was a live or a studio recording. But Wow! Here the devil really gets hit after hit with the carpet beater! What a drum! More polished trumpet play, but what a drive! On the other hand the "Cherubinen" aria is a little too heavy for my taste.

Aryeh Oron wrote (September 25, 2000):
[To Marie Jensen] Thanks for your nice review. IMHO, Leusink [8] is doing very beautiful things in this cantata, but eventually I find myself in this cantata preferring Richter [4] to the others. Have you heard him?

Marie Jensen wrote:
[5] < PS This morning the radio sent a version of BWV 130 with Leonhardt Consort. Don't know if it was a live or a studio recording. But Wow! Here the devil really gets hit after hit with the carpet beater! What a drum! More polished trumpet play, but what a drive! On the other hand the "Cherubinen" aria is a little too heavy for my taste. >
I wonder if the conductor in the recording you heard in the radio was indeed Leonhardt. In the H&L cantata cycle on Teldec, BWV 130 was recorded by Harnoncourt and not Leonhardt. You can read the details in my review, which was sent to the group yesterday. On the other hand, I heard in this recording different things from those that you heard. Harnoncourt's trumpets are far from being polished, where you hear drive I hear over-energy, and the 'Cherubinen' aria for tenor (No.5) is the best part in this relatively weak rendering and not heavy at all. But, of course, all these observations are based on my subjective listening and my personal taste, which may differ from yours. On the other hand, AFAIK, Leonhardt has not recorded yet BWV 130. On the other hand he could have recorded it only for the radio (live or not). I could go on with guesses. Who knows?

Marie Jensen wrote (September 25, 2000):
[To Aryeh Oron] (5) Here are further details about the version of BWV 130 I heard in the radio Sunday morning. The speaker said: The Leonhardt Consort, conducted by Leonhardt, Hannover Boys Choir, soloists: Bergius, Rampf, Equiluz and Heldwein.

Every Sunday morning this year Danish Radio broadcasts Bach cantatas. Most of them are live recordings. The quality is variating, artistically and technically and "high precision coughers" among the audience are often heard, as well as those awful applauses often beginning before the last chord is over. This one has no such live noise.

The soloists are exactly the same as in your Harnoncourt version, and because Bergius is a boy soprano, my version has to be from the same time as yours, 1983 or so. The radio seldom reuses that old live performance.

Perhaps the speaker said something wrong. The staff in the control room is not too smart either. I have phoned and mailed to them, when they announced one cantata and played another. They did not react or correct anything in public. The man I spoke to earlier this year, when they played BWV 157 instead of BWV 68 just said - well, you have certainly made a mess in the anthill! - And that was that. So I have stopped reacting. Just shake my head in private. Glad of the initiative anyway. A few weeks ago they announced cantata BWV 163 "Nur jedem das Seine", which I don't have and looked forward to, and in stead came some Italian Concerto Grosso! Guess they tape the speak in advance.

[4] About Richter: No, I have not heard his BWV 130. But I'm sure it is excellent. BWV 80 "Ein fester Burg" which trumpet movements reminds me of BWV 130 is great in Richter's version. Triumphant, grandiose movements and full power are Richter specialities.

Roy Reed wrote (September 29, 2000):
September 29: Michaelmas... The Feast of St. Michael and all Angels (in C of E that is, for RCs also Gabriel and Raphael.) Anyway, much wings and protection and all sorts of help and insight. I love angels and all the wonderful artwork they have evoked, including this cantata. My favorite angels are the ones atop the organ case in the chapel at Kings College, Cambridge. I have a small print of one of them sitting on my desk in my study. While a favorite topic I generally hate to get into it because it does tend to bring out the nut cases among us.

Michael gets mentioned in scripture in four places. In Daniel 10:13 ff, and 12:1; Jude 1:9 and Revelations 12: 7-9. Bach's poet does a good job picking up the sense of all of these and does bring the whole matter down to elements of faith and of blessing, rather than fancy and apocalyptic conjecture...while not ignoring "demonic" threat.

I have 3 readings: Rilling (3), Harnoncourt (5) and Leusink [8]. I like them all, very much actually. Favorite for me goes to Harnoncourt. I like the sound and the drama, especially the big drum in No.3 and the dramatic singing of Heldwein. Really threatening, dragonic sort of stuff. Next to angels I like dragons, but let's really not get into that. Happy Michaelmas everybody.

Andrew Oliver wrote (September 29, 2000):
What a glorious work this is! I have just the Harnoncourt (5) and Leusink [8] recordings, both of wI like. Yes, there are unpolished sections here and there in both recordings, but I like them anyway. Aryeh was not too keen on the balance between instruments and voices in the Harnoncourt. If the same balance were to occur in many of Bach's other cantatas, I would agree, but in this one I think the thundering of the drums and the blare of the trumpets gives the martial atmosphere Bach probably intended. Indeed, the impression I get is that Bach thoroughly enjoyed writing this, not just the martial movements but all of it. I think the duet is very impressive, and… in fact the whole thing. And then we get a double dose of chorale! Perhaps there are not the intellectual depths in this cantata that there are in some others, but it is a feast for the ears instead.

Discussions in the Week of September 10, 2006

Peter Smaill wrote (September 9, 2006):
Introduction to BWV 130, "Herr Gott,dich loben alle wir"

Week of September 10, 2006
Cantata BWV 130, “ Herr Gott,dich loben alle wir"

1^st performance: September 29, 1724 - Leipzig
Second Annual Cantata Cycle, 1723-24 (Jahrgang II)

Previous Discussions: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV130-D.htm
Main Cantata page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV130.htm

From the Sunday following St Michael's Day in Leipzig, the city was en fête with the annual St Michael's Fair; and thus the celebration of the Saint's Day, one of the few venerated in Lutheranism, would have had added festal meaning. For 1724, Bach drew on the chorale associated with the great protestant reformer, Phillip Melanchthon, (the words paraphrased by Paul Eber), set to the tune by the French Protestant Louis Bourgeois. It is a melody beloved of the English-speaking world and is known as the "Old Hundredth "; indeed, the same tune was specially set for the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II in 1953 by Vaughan Williams.

This instantly accessible Cantata is perhaps surprisingly rarely performed given these associations. In the main I suspect the problem is the usual one of securing three fine trumpeters to undertake the demanding parts set by Bach. The trumpet has scarcely sounded in Jahrgang II to date and the requirement for three suggests to that Bach may have had funds from the Council or the Thomaskirche to import an extra player(s) of the right standard rather than depend on the "Stadtpfeifer", the usual choice at this time being the virtuoso Gottfried Reiche and Johann Cornelius Gentzmer.

The introductory Chorus (Mvt. 1) is powerfully constructed. The punctuation of a triple beat figure in the continuo, timpani-enforced, interjects and emphasise rising and extending orchestral lines, the trumpets intensifying in the interchange of rising and falling themes the battle between St Michael and the Devil. The power of this ritornello arises from the interplay of the triple pulse of the continuo and timpani with the trumpet lines. IMO there is a structural parallel with the Overture to "Meistersingers." In that most Bachian of fellow Leipziger Richard Wagner's opera, though the rythmns of the overture differs from BWV 130/1 (Mvt. 1), the structure is similar- a repeated introductory phrase in continuo/timpani with an ever rising and lengthening trumpet chorus, reverting again and again to the base rhythm. Wagner, who based his melody on Wagenseil's 'master tones", first published in 1697, is setting the scene for St John's Day celebrations; Bach, for St Michael's Day.

That is not to say that Wagner neccesarily knew BWV 130 and indeed this seems unlikely since, as Teri Noel Towe has pointed out, the parts for this work were dispersed unlike most of Jahrgang II. What is more likely is that this interplay creates the impression of pomp and grandeur associated with contest and triumph, and is a more general baroque device, brilliantly adapted by Bach.

The purpose of Bach and his librettist, IMO, is only in part to celebrate the legendary saint using the stirring texts derived from the Book of Revelations. Much more likely, the overtone is of a Protestant festival, indicated by the choice of words associated with Melanchthon and especially the lines of the final Chorale, with its exhilarating trumpet run to high C and stress in the words on fidelity to Scripture:

"Und bitten dich, wollst allezeit
Dieselben heissen sein bereit,
Zu Schützen deine kleine Herd,
So hält dein Göttlichs Wort in Wert"
("and we pray that You would at all times
Call then to be ready
To protect your little flock
That holds Your divine Word as worthy.")

Bach creates separate instrumental groupings to highlight the antiphonal nature of the conflict described in BWV 130/1 (Mvt. 1), just as he had for the civic Cantata BWV 71 sixteen years previously. In both works (cf. BWV 130/2) he uses the effect of frequent intervals of a second, i.e. adjacent tones, in trumpets. He must, too, have had for St Michael's Day an exceptional Bass able to hold out against the three archangelic trumpets in BWV 130/3 (Mvt. 3). If the idea was to showcase the high levels of instrumental attainment to visitors to Leipzig at Michaelmas, then the flute obbligato in the highly-contrasting Tenor aria, BWV 130/5 (Mvt. 5), would have left no doubt as to the range of skills at Bach's disposal.

Selected Commentaries

Robertson:
(Mvt. 1) Four motifs appear simultaneously in the opening ritornello, all arpeggios: trumpets ascend, oboes descend, strings alternate high and low groups of semiquavers and the continuo booms out detached octaves. These motifs become interchangeable and, as there are two others to come, the texture is very rich.

Whittaker:
The four cantatas we possess for the Feast of St Michael and all Angels show powerfully Bach was stirred by the associations of this Sunday.
(Mvt. 3) In one other Cantata does he use this combinations, BWV 172, and there the accompaniment is made more formidable by the addition of a bassoon to the figured bass.

Boyd (Anderson):
(Mvt. 4) The following accompanied recitative is a duet for soprano and tenor whose light textures in vocal writing of alluring warmth and transparency provide a striking contrast with the warrior like gestures of the preceding section, and prepare the ground for the ensuing da capo aria.

Dürr:
(Mvt. 1) Significantly, the theology of Bach's day was not accustomed to see in the angels any of the feminine weakness that later periods have imputed to them. Thus the opening movement is full of warlike aggression: here the angels appear as the conqueror of Satan and as the protectors of God's elect.
(Mvt. 2) The high demands made of the trumpet seem to have been Bach's motive for re-scoring the aria for strings at a subsequent revival, surely much to the detriment of this splendid battle-scene.

Outstanding Questions

It would be interesting to know what exact civic formalities were associated with this feast - was there attendance of guilds and senior burghers? A procession? The sense is that Bach was out to impress the City and perhaps far beyond.

The resetting of BWV 8 (oboes d’amore) and BWV 130 (trumpets) for violins hints that there was a decline in the number and quality of instrumentalists at Bach's disposal in the latter years at Leipzig; to high demands on trumpeters in particular. Is there any known evidence of causes for this, such as increasing parsimony by the Town Council concurrent with declining relations with the Cantor?

================================================================
BWV is pure enjoyment, and been a favourite of mine ever since picking up the Ernest Ansermet recording [2] in 1973. If a newcomer to Bach wanted to hear their first Cantata, then "Herr Gott, dich loben alle wir" can, from experience, be thoroughly recommended.

I hope that for those who find some Cantatas too introspective, this extrovert work will by contrast bring them the sense of glory and power with which Bach invests the angels.

================================================================
Additional Resources

Libretto:

Andreas Stübel (per Wolff, “Johann Sebastian Bach: The Learned Musician”, p.278)

Chorale: “Herr gott, dich loben alle wir”
Text: Paul Eber (1554), after Phillip Melanchthon ("Dicimus grates tibi" (1539))
Melody: Louis Bourgeois ("Or sus, serviteurs du Seigneur") (1551)
Chorale Text: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Texts/Chorale113-Eng3.htm
Chorale Melody: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/CM/Herr-Gott-loben-alle.htm

Text: http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/cantatas/130.html
English Translation: http://www..uvm.edu/~classics/faculty/bach/BWV130.html
Other translations: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV130.htm

Structure and scoring:

C major

Chorus SATB
Recitative A
Aria B
Recitative S T
Aria T
Chorale SATB

Instruments: Tr i,ii,iii, timp, Ob i, ii, iii,Vln i,ii,Vla, Cont

Liturgical Comments:

For the Feast of St Michael

Other Cantatas written for this Sunday:
BWV 19, “Es erhub sich ein Streit"
BWV 149, “Man singet mit freuden vom sieg”
BWV 50 (?), “Nun ist das Heil und die Kraft”

Texts of Readings: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Read/Michael.htm

Piano Vocal Score: (free PDF download): http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV130.htm

Recordings: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV130.htm

Music (free streaming download): http://www.bach-cantatas..com/Mus/BWV130-Mus.htm

Commentaries: http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/bachjs/cantatas/130.html

Performances of Bach Cantatas: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Concert-2006.htm

Order of Discussion (2006): http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Order-2006.htm

Douglas Cowling wrote (September 9, 2006):
BWV 130, "Herr Gott,dich loben alle wir" - Buffo Satan?

Peter Smaill wrote:
< Week of September 10, 2006
Cantata BWV 130, ³ Herr Gott,dich loben alle wir"
1^st performance: 29 September, 1724 Leipzig
Second Annual Cantata Cycle, 1723-24 (Jahrgang II) >
St. Michael's Day always drew the most spectacular music from Bach, and Peter may well be correct in speculating that this was a popular or civic occasion. I half-remember that someone noted that Sept 29 was connected with a Leipzig Fair? Or was it the beginning of the academic year? Or the fall session of the Council?

Ever a poor loser, I would resuggest that the cantatas which Bach wrote for Michelmas share many musical, theological and literary themes and conventions. This list might consider discussing the occasional group of cantatas linked by the day in the church year for which they were composed.

Interesting sidebar about the chorale tune. Although Lutheran chorales were forbidden in the Anglican church until the end of the 19^th century, this melody crept in the back door as a French metrical psalm and went on to become one of the most popular of Anglican hymns as "All People that on Earth Do Dwell". Vaughan Williams wrote a pseudo-Bach setting for the Coronation of Elizabeth II -- I think he may well have had this cantata in mind. The coronation is a rite which historically had no congregational hymns. The distinguised congregation in 1953, after listening passively to superb music for two hours, grabbed their opportunity to sing this liturgical novelty and sang all the verses, to the great annoyance of the composer who had marked certain voices for choir alone.

I also wonder if the bass aria, "Der alte Drache" is another example of the comic Satan inherited as a literary form from the German middle ages and musically perhaps through Italian oratorio. Did Bach use a lumbering 12/8 semi-gigue in a major key with brass and timpani to satirize the dragon and thereby reduce his ultimate menace? Leusink's bass [8] sings it with great solemnity. I wonder if it was intended to be a bit more over-the-top as a buffo type aria. Did the Bach's listeners find this aria funny? A dancing dragon?

Ed Myskowski wrote (September 9, 2006):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
< Ever a poor loser, I would resuggest that the cantatas which Bach wrote for Michelmas share many musical, theological and literary themes and conventions. This list might consider discussing the occasional group of cantatas linked by the day in the church year for which they were composed. >
Loser? Not in the least, an excellent and well-received suggestion, both now and previously. The questions are how and when. By coincidence, I had just had a glance at some of the archived chat about the difficulties of agreeing on the second round of discussions. So probably never premature to consider future plans, and getting some agreement in advance.

Peter Smaill wrote (September 10, 2006):
BWV 130, "Herr Gott,dich loben alle wir" - OT Coronation

Douglas Cowling wrote:
< Although Lutheran chorales were forbidden in the Anglican church until the end of the 19^th century, this melody crept in the back door as a French metrical psalm and went on to become one of the most popular of Anglican hymns as "All People that on Earth Do Dwell". Vaughan Williams wrote a pseudo-Bach setting for the Coronation of Elizabeth II -- I think he may well have had this cantata in mind. The coronation is a rite which historically had no congregational hymns. The distinguised congregation in 1953, after listening passively to superb music for two hours, grabbed their opportunity to sing this liturgical novelty and sang all the verses, to the great annoyance of the composer who had marked certain voices for choir alone. >
A fascinating detail which Doug Cowling supplies. The opening flourish of the piece was adapted from RVW's Cantata "The Hundredth Psalm" and incorporates at v4 a faux bourdon by John Dowland (1621). v5 has the delicious direction in the first stave , "All available Trumpets."

Over 53 years on it is interesting to see what of the music persists in the repertoire . The full line up is:

Anthem "I was glad" Parry
Introit "Behold O God our defender" Howells
Gradual "Let my prayer come up" W H Harris
Creed (from Communion Service in G minor) RVW
Hymn "Come Holy Ghost" arr. Bullock
Anthem "Zadok the Priest" Handel
Anthems:
"Rejoice in the Lord" attr
Redford
"O Clap your hands together" Gibbons
"I will not leave you comfortless" Byrd
"O Lord our Governour" Willan
"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace' S S Wesley
Hymn "All people that on earth do dwell" arr. RVW
Sanctus (from the Communion Service in G) RVW
Communion "O taste and see" RVW
Gloria Stanford
Te Deum Walton

As Doug Cowling points out, it's not surprising that the congregation wanted to sing after such an amount of listening!

Ed Myskowski wrote (September 12, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< Week of September 10, 2006
Cantata BWV 130, ,Äú Herr Gott,dich loben alle wir"
Whitta
The four cantatas we possess for the Feast of St Michael and all Angels show powerfully Bach was stirred by the associations of this Sunday.
Dürr
(Mvt. 1) Significantly, the theology of Bach's day was not accustomed to see in the angels any of the feminine weakness that later periods have imputed to them.
Outstanding Questions
It would be interesting to know what exact civic formalities were associated with this feast - was there attendance of guilds and senior burghers? A procession? >
Perhaps a procession of outraged women? No, not yet.

I am so nose to the grindstone (Eng. trans: focused on the task at hand) that I did not notice in Doug's most recent suggestion, that Michaelmas was the next upcoming discussion.

Is there any difficulty in mentioning cross references to all four works for the day? I am working hard (and enjoying it) to relate to this music note by note, week by week. But if someone else takes the lead, you can count on an opinion from me.

Neil Halliday wrote (September 13, 2006):
BWV 130

Doug Cowling wondered if the bass aria has a comic aspect to it. Not in Werner's recording [1], where the overwhelming impression is of military triumphalism. The brilliant brass and timpani, with strong, attractive singing by Stämpfli, ensure this impression, also conveyed in Ansermet [2] and Rilling [3], except that Rilling has a harpsichord tinkling away in the continuo, which detracts from the powerful effect somewhat.

Whereas the period performances of BWV 8, discussed last week, are in general to be preferred to the likes of Werner, Rilling, and Richter, at least in the opening chorus, the situation might be reversed in the big, brassy, pompous, magnificent opening chorus (Mvt. 1) of BWV 130. Werner [1] and Ansermet [2] have very successful 60's recording. The closing chorale of Ansermet, complete with large church organ, is amazing for the spacious magnificence brought to this short final movement.

However, Richter [4], like Koopman [7], seems to be aiming for excitement via a fast performance of the opening chorus, but I prefer the more solid, pompous approach to this music. The choirs of both these latter conductors have some muddying of the rapid vocal passagework in the lower voices, at the faster tempi. Leusink [8] deserves a mention for his rousing performance of the opening chorus.

One might characterize the mood changes in BWV 130 thus: from the pompous magnificence of Mvt. 1, to the triumphalism of Mvt. 3, through tender compassion of the accompanied recitative for soprano and bass (Mvt. 4), to complete light-hearted happiness in the tenor aria with obbligato flute (Mvt. 5), ending with a return to spacious magnificence (Mvt. 6).

(BTW, last week I wondered about Suzuki's performance of BWV 8; the internet sample reveals that Suzuki's opening chorus in BWV 8, like Herreweghe's, is probably as close to perfection as possible. Regarding tempo, it's the bass aria in BWV 8 that Suzuki hurries along a bit; Rilling's performance [3] remains a favourite of mine).

Ed Myskowski wrote (September 17, 2006):
Introduction to BWV 130

Peter Smaill wrote:
< The introductory Chorus is powerfully constructed. The punctuation of a triple beat figure in the continuo, timpani-enforced, interjects and emphasise rising and extending orchestral lines, the trumpets intensifying in the interchange of rising and falling themes the battle between St Michael and the Devil. The power of this ritornello arises from the interplay of the triple pulse of the continuo and timpani with the trumpet lines. >
Precious little commentary in response to Peter's extensive and excellent introduction. I would like to point out that Michael the Archangel does not actually conquer either Satan, Dragon, or Devil in the text of the opening chorus. I suppose it is OK to infer that all Lutherans knew the story, but shouldn't we stick a bit closer to the actual libretto?: Angels surrounding God. Plenty of room for trumpets, drums, and triple beat there.

Next year (BWV 19) we will get to deal with the dragon in his death. I was counting on this sort of commentary from the suggested thematic discussion topic, so I looked ahead. Alas, I was alone.

On the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum website, you can find wonderful paintings of Michael slaying the dragon (Pere Garcia), and also Saint George slaying the dragon (Carlo Crivelli). Easiest to find with the collection by artist function. How do we account for that devilishly recovering dragon, theologically? Is it enough that the myths inspire great art and music, but defy logic?

I share Peter's enthusiasm for the Ansermet LP [2], with Ellie Ameling and Helen Watts. Indeed, the recording set both in my mind as paragons of Bach singing. This time around, Richter [4] sets a new standard for me. This sounds like the music his approach and players were tailored for.

Seems like Bach was using the opportunity, however created, to indulge in a respite from the weekly <heavy clouds, with a hint of sun breaking through>, to enjoy the choir of angels. Bunch of trumpet players and drummers hit town for the fair? Stranger things have happened. But everything about Jahrgang II seems more structured, more planned, than that. More likely, IMO, Bach was a bit more focussed on the sunshine than the preachers, and relished every opportunity to break out a bit. Sheer speculation on my part. Is that allowed on BCML?

Leusink [8] does not catch the festive change of pace. Not a recording you would seek out, but as part of the Leusink set, provides interesting contrast to Richter.

Comments on the OVPP issue (Montreal Baroque) [10] would be welcome.

Those engrossed in speculating on personnel (human resource) issues in Bach's day, would do well to revisit the documentation re flautist Wild:

(1) Around Leipzig in 1724, in some capacity, if not dedicatee of the flute lines.
(2) Recommended by Bach for sinecure, 1727, declined.
(3) Hanging around as the ultimate grad student, until real job in 1734.

Was he unique? Always possible, I suppose, but not a good starting assumption. More likely, plenty of other grad students available to help out with the chores, and performances. Sound familiar? Leisen (Eng. trans: mercy, from the Fr. merci).

Julian Mincham wrote (September 17, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< Precious little commentary in response to Peter's extensive and excellent introduction. >
Ed I agree--BWV 130 didn't attract much attention on list. I must say it's not one of my favourites--I think I was always a bit put off by the conventional chords 1, 1V, V opening bars! Things get better from there on--but it's rare for Bach to begin a big chorus with such an obvious cliche.

Of interest to me is the point that this is the third of a group of three major key fantasias after an almost uninterrupted run of minor key movements from the beginning of the cycle (the one exception being BWV 94). From here on to the end of the cycle there is a much more even distribution of major and minor keys.

The modes of the chosen chorales dictated whether the opening choruses would be major or minor of course -- except towards the end where the final chorale was not the one on which the fantasia was based or when the opening choruses were not based on the chorales anyway (fexamples).

Ed Myskowski wrote (September 20, 2006):
Julian Mincham wrote:
< Ed I agree--130 didn't attract much attention on list. I must say it's not one of my favourites--I think I was always a bit put off by the conventional chords 1, 1V, V opening bars! Things get better from there on--but it's rare for Bach to begin a big chorus with such an obvious cliche.
Of interest to me is the point that this is the third of a group of three major key fantasias after an almost uninterrupted run of minor key movements from the beginning of the cycle >
Perhaps the cliche is just for contrast, in the larger scheme? BWV 114 certainly comes back with maximum ingenuity. I cannot comment on the harmonic details, but the structural innovations (and intuitive harmonies) are another advance, all the more so coming right after BWV 130.

Is there any connection of Michaelmas with the feast which ultimately became Oktoberfest? I did not check beyond raising the question, but the dates seem quite close and coincident.

I enjoy the harmonic tutorials whenever you care to add them, I expect a few others do as well. In the midst of everything else, Jahrgang II could probably provide practical examples for a course in harmony, perhaps the ultimate examples. No use to those who already know it, but of interest to the rest of us.

Douglas Cowling wrote (September 20, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< Is there any connection of Michaelmas with the feast which ultimately became Oktoberfest? I did not check beyond raising the question, but the dates seem quite close and coincident. >
Michelmas (St. Michael's Day on Sept 29) retained its popularlity after the Reformation because of its association with the harvest celebration. Oktoberfest in many German cities still begins on the first Sunday of October which in popular devotion was the Sunday after Michelmas. Some one would have to dig around to find out if an urban centre like Leipzig celebrated the Harvest, although the only artifact to survive from the Bach household is a beer glass!

Thomas Braatz wrote (September 20, 2006):
Rd Myskowski wrote:
>>Is there any connection of Michaelmas with the feast which ultimately became Oktoberfest?<<
There is no connection between the two. The latter originated at the beginning of the 19^th century as a horse-race festival. However, the connection between Michaelmas and the Leipzig Fairs goes back to the Middle Ages and was always associated with Easter and Michaelmas and later on New Years was added. Musical performances in the churches but also in outdoor venues were very important during these Leipzig Fairs during Bach's tenure due to the great number of visitors who came to Leipzig to attend the fairs.

Thomas Jaenicke wrote (September 21, 2006):
[To Douglas Cowling] Don`t forget that St. Michael is the patron saint of the Germans (der deutsche Michel)! indeed no surprise that this feastday was (and is) celebrated all over in the German speaking world.

Cantata BWV 130: Complete Recordings | Recordings of Individual Movements | Discussions

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Last update: ýSeptember 21, 2006 ý23:08:37