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Cantata BWV 110
Unser Mund sei voll Lachens
Discussions - Part 3 |
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Continue from Part 2 |
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Discussions in the Week of February 22, 2009 (3rd round) |
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Douglas Cowling wrote (February 22, 2009):
Week of February 22: BWV 110, Unser Mund sei voll Lachens
Week of February 22: BWV 110, Unser Mund sei voll Lachens
BACKGROUND LINKS:
Links to texts, translations, scores, recordings and earlier discussions: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV110.htm
PERFORMANCE HISTORY:
1st performance: December 25, 1725 - Leipzig;
2nd performance: 1728-1731 - Leipzig
LIBRETTO:
Dürr makes the very interesting point that Bachıs first three Christmas cantatas fall into three distinct categories:
1) Freely-versified (no biblical words or chorale) BWV 63
2) Chorale BWV 91
3) Biblical words BWV 110
The text is Bachıs only use of a libretto by Georg Christian Lehms which alternates biblical dicta with poetry:
1. Dictum: Psalm 126:2-3
2. Verse: Lehms
3. Dictum: Jeremiah 10:6
4. Verse: Lehms
5. Dictum: Luke 2:14
6. Verse: Lehms
7. Chorale: Füger
The wide-ranging choice of biblical texts recalls BWV 106, ³Gottes Zeit², but without that cantataıs unified theological program. The motet ³Jesu Meine Freude² alternates chorale verses with biblical texts, but again that motet has one of Bachıs most symmetrical and most unified librettos.
INDIVIDUAL MOVEMENTS:
Mvt. 1: Chorus: ³Unser Mund sei voll Lachens²
The opening chorus is an adaptation of the Ouverture of the Orchestral Suite in D Major, BWV 1069. This is Big Band Bach with 2 flutes, 3 oboes, bassoon (independent}, 3 trumpets, timpani, strings. It is probably only coincidence that this cantata has three oboes like Cantata 63. The two flutes are noted as ³colla parte² with the oboes. The chorus has the typical ouverture form of a stately grave followed by a lively fugal allegro and concluded with a repeat of the opening. The slow sections appear as orchestral bookends to the choral allegro. There is much room for rhythmic interpretation in the grave section with double-dotting and shortening the sixteenth runs to thirty-second runs. Leusink [12] for instance is very conservative and plays everything pretty much as written. The choral section is an astonishing adaptation which provides perfect ³laughing² music for the choir. A similar adaptation of orchestral music to a ³laughing² motif can be found in the opening chorus of the Easter Oratorio. It is interesting that the vocal parts begin without any marking with the dotted figure which has to be interpreted throughout as a triplet rhythm.
The most controversial feature is the marking of ³coro pleno² and ³ripieno² section markings in the later version of the cantata. These ³reduced² sections correspond to the Concertante sections in the Ouverture and may be a unique example rather than a norm. The solo bass section is not unlike the similar bass ³solo² in ³Et resurrexit² in the B Minor Mass (BWV 232).
The presence of the large orchestra might suggest that the Sanctus in C was sung in the same service (See Musical Sequence for Christmas Day below)
Mvt. 2: Aria (Tenor) ³Ihr Gedanken und ihr Sinnen²
The two flutes are released from the low register of the opening chorus to a more normal tessiatura. The continuo is marked ³fagotto piano sempre² which raises the question of how freely the continuo line was varied by the addition of a bassoon. Many modern cantata peformances employ a bassoon even when one is not marked: the duet, ³Mein Freund ist mein² in ³Wachet Auf² is a good example where the oboe is almost always joined by a bassoon (often without cello or bass!). The flutes have a quasi-canonic figuration while the bass offers a complementary theme. The movement is bipartite rather than the expected da capo
Mvt. 3: Recitative (Bass) ³Dir, Herr, ist niemand gleich²
This accompanied recitative for bass is more arioso than recitative with rising figures in both the upper strings and in the sustained bass line. The ascending (to heaven?) motif makes an instructive comparison with the falling kneeling motif in ³Der Heiland fällt² in the SMP (BWV 244). Perfection in five bars!
Mvt. 4: Aria (Alto) ³Ach Herr, was ist ein Menschenkind²
We may be moved to speculate why Bach chose to use the bassoon in the previous aria with flutes and not here with its sister reed instrument, the oboe aıamore. There is a distant echo of the opening chorus in both the triplet figures in the oboe and the falling motif in the bass. The mention of Satan in the central section inspires increasing chromaticism both in the rising bass line and the angular intervals of the vocal line.
Mvt. 5: Duet (Soprano & Tenor) ³Ehre sei Gott in der Höhe²
This lilting duet is adapted from ³Virgo Jesse² which was one of the troped movements which appeared in the first E flat version of the Magnificat. That suggests that the D Major version was regarded as definitive by Bach and that he was free to reuse the music. This was the first German version of the Gloria to appear since the Sunday before Advent four weeks previous.
The full Gloria had already been sung in Latin at the beginning of the service. Is there yet another echo ³Unser Mund² in the descending figure on ³und Friede²?
Mvt. 6: Aria (Bass) ³Wacht auf, ihr Adern und ihr Glieder²
The penultimate position of this bravura aria for bass and trumpet is preminiscent of ³Grosser Gott² in Part One of the Christmas Oratorio. In fact, the running figures are remarkably similar even to the syncopations in the trumpet part. In the B section, the bass calls out to the strings, and the trumpet and oboes fall silent to let the strings accompany the voice alone.
Mvt. 7: Chorale: ³Alleluja! Gelobt sei Gott²
The melody of this chorale, ³Wir Christenleut,² appears in the Leipzig hymnbooks as an extra Christmas hymn: Bachıs congregation may very well have sung it later in the service during communion. (See Musical Sequence for Christmas Day below.)
Bach wrote three organ preludes on this chorale: BWV 612, 710 and 1090. We know that Bach normally played a prelude before the cantata but very little scholarly work seems to have been done to see if there are connections between the organ works and cantatas. Did Bach play one of the above preludes before this cantata? If he did, there may have been chorale bookends.
Bach does not provide any independent countermelodies or interludes for the instruments one half-expects the full orchestra to return as it would for the first part of the Christmas Oratorio. In that work, the chorale, with its curious, halting half-lines, closes Part Three, but is followed immediately by a reprise of ³Herrscher des Himmel²
MUSICAL SEQUENCE FOR CHRISTMAS DAY:
Tower bells rung at 6 am and again at 7 am:
The 5200 kg bell ³Gloriosa² (1477) (pitched in A) was rung only on festivals
Candles lit at 7 am,
Archdeacon of Leipzig officiates as celebrant; Deacon assists
Musicians must be in loft by final bell or be fined.
Organ Prelude on ³Puer Natus² (BWV 603 Orgelbüchlein?)
Settings by Bach or other composers before all chorales & choral works
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/CM/Ein-Kind-geborn-zu-Bethlehem.htm )
Introit Hymn/Motet by Choir: ³Puer Natus In Bethlehem²
Settings by Praetorius or Schein are possible
Organ Prelude before Kyrie to establish key and cover tuning
Missa Brevis: Kyrie & Gloria (Plainsong Gloria intonation sung by Celebrant)
A concerted setting in Latin was sung from Christmas Day to Epiphany.
Bachıs own missae breve are generally from his later tenure in Leipzig but may have been used with later performances of the cantata:
B minor (1733) used in B Minor Mass (BWV 232) [only missa brevis with brass]
BWV 233 - F major (1738)
based on Christmas cantata ³Dazu ist Erscheinen² 2 horns
BWV 233a Kyrie (1708-1712)
BWV 234 A major (1738)
BWV 235 G minor (1738)
BWV 236 G Major (1738)
Collect/Prayer of Day sung in Latin plainsong by Celebrant
Choral Responses sung to four-part polyphony from Vopelius collection ³Neue Leipziger Gesangbuch²
Epistle: Titus 2:11-14 (The grace of God has appeared) sung by Deacon in German to plainsong
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Read/Christmas.htm
Organ Prelude on ³Gelobet Seist Du² (BWV 314 or 604?)
Congregational Gradual Hymn of the Day (³de temporeı,):
³Gelobet Seist Du, Jesu Christ ³
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/CM/Gelobet-seist-du.htm
Gospel choral responses sung in six-part polyphony from Vopelius collection
Gospel : Luke 2: 1-14 (Birth of Christ)
sung by Deacon in German to plainsong
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Read/Christmas.htm
Organ Prelude on ³Wir Glauben All An Einen Gott² (BWV 1098?)
Congregational Creed Chorale:
³Wir Glauben All An Einen Gott² (Luther)
Organ Prelude before Cantata
First Cantata
Organ Prelude on ³Ein Kindelein So Löbelich² (BWV 719?)
Congregational Pulpit Hymn after the Cantata (Offertory)
³Ein Kindelein So Löbelich²
Sursum Corda sung in Latin in six-part polyphony from Vopelius collection
Preface sung in Latin by Celebrant
Sanctus (without Benedictus)
A concerted setting was sung in Latin during Christmas week.
BWV 237 C major
BWV 238 D major
BWV 239 D Minor
BWV 240 G Major (arr?)
BWV 241 D Major (Kerll?)
Hand bells rung at the altar at the end of the Sanctus
Verba (Words of Institution) sung in German plainsong by Celebrant
Second Cantata ³sub communione² during Communion?
Unknown if by Bach or other composer;
Bachıs motet ³Lobet den Herrn² has a traditional Christmas text.
Other congregational hymns during Communion:
introduced by organ prelude:
³Ich Freue Mich In Dir² (Ziegler)
³Wir Christenleut² (Fuger)
Final Prayer & Benediction:
sung with 4 part polyphony from Vopelius
Organ Prelude on ³³Ein Kind Geborn zu Bethlehem²
Final Congregational Hymn: ³Ein Kind Geborn zu Bethlehem²
German repeat of Introit chorale |
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James Atkins Pritchard wrote (February 22, 2009):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
< Mvt. 5: Duet (Soprano & Tenor) ³Ehre sei Gott in der Höhe²
This lilting duet is adapted from ³Virgo Jesse² which was one of the troped movements which appeared in the first E flat version of the Magnificat. That suggests that the D Major version was regarded as definitive by Bach and that he was free to reuse the music. This was the first German version of the Gloria to appear since the Sunday before Advent four weeks previous.
The full Gloria had already been sung in Latin at the beginning of the service. Is there yet another echo ³Unser Mund² in the descending figure on ³und Friede²? >
Doug, a question about your comments on Mvt 5: are you saying the Gloria was sung twice in this service?
A splendid introduction, by the way. |
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Douglas Cowling wrote (February 22, 2009):
James Atkins Pritchard wrote:
< Doug, a question about your comments on Mvt. 5: are you saying the Gloria was sung twice in this service? >
The full Gloria in Excelsis was sung in Latin at the beginning of the Lutheran mass on Christmas. The verses from Luke's Gospel were later chanted in German as part of the Gospel story of the birth of Christ. The latter verses were then repeated for the third time in German as part of this cantata. A textual motif unifying the whole service. |
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James Atkins Pritchard wrote (February 22, 2009):
[To Douglas Cowling] Thanks for the clarification. |
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Jean Laaninen wrote (February 22, 2009):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
< Mvt. 2 ...The flutes have a quasi-canonic figuration while the bass offers a complementary theme. The movement is bipartite rather than the expected da capo. >
I found this to be a most appealing weaving of the woodwinds. |
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Neil Halliday wrote (February 22, 2009):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
>The most controversial feature is the marking of ³coro pleno² and ³ripieno² section markings in the later version of the cantata. These ³reduced² sections correspond to the Concertante sections in the Ouverture and may be a unique example rather than a norm.<
(By "ripieno" you are referring of course to the '*senza* ripieni' sections in the score of BWV 110).
The 2nd and 3rd cantatas that Bach presented in Leipzig - namely BWV 76 and BWV 21 - also call for similar alternation of solo and ripieno sections; however, in these cantatas the parts are simply marked 'solo' and 'tutti' (but 'solo' definitely does not mean that only one of the vocal lines is singing, as was suggested in previous discussions; thanks to Aryeh, we can all peruse the scores now).
[Interestingly, in the last chorus of BWV 21, Bach does not find it necessary to mark the opening choral section 'coro pleno' or some such; but 'solo' markings are certainly added to the vocal parts later on].
In the present cantata, the change from the SAT soloists to the AT ripienists (page 279 of the BGA score) pruduces an interesting effect, a forerunner of Beethoven's alternation of soloists and full choir in the Ninth, perhaps. |
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Neil Halliday wrote (February 22, 2009):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
>There is much room for rhythmic interpretation in the grave section with double-dotting and shortening the sixteenth runs to thirty-second runs. Leusink [12] for instance is very conservative and plays everything pretty much as written.<
I'm not sure what you have in mind here. Converting the first semi- quaver run (on flutes, oboes and violins I) in bar 4 into a 1/32 note run would represent a fairly radical distortion of the score - eg, the run would start near the end of the 3rd beat instead near the start of the 2nd beat.
All the conductors, with samples available at the BCW (Herreweghe [9], Koopman [14], Leusink [12] and Rotzsch [8], seem to recognise this, and play the score as written, so this 'french overture' must be a different kettle-of-fish to, say, BWV 61.
The main difference in these recordings concerns the length of the dotted crotchet; Herreweghe [9] has the longest tenuto (on the dotted quaver) and also gives the noblest performance, IMO. Rotzsch [8] is the least satisfactory with the fastest 'grave'.
Rilling [6] (no sample available) with the slowest 'grave', also expresses serene nobility.
In the light of some apparently heated exchanges concerning tempo on another list, it's interesting to note that Suzuki, with the fastest tempo in BWV 91/1, has perhaps the most jubilant recording; but the grave sections of BWV 110/1 [17], owing to the different nature of the music, work very well in the slowest tempo (Rilling) [6].
BTW, in my reply to BWV 91, I meant to say I agree with your reof the closing bars of the accompanied recitative in the agnus dei of the BMM (BWV 232), after you mentioned it! |
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Neil Halliday wrote (February 22, 2009):
Neil Hallidaywrote:
>The main difference in these recordings concerns the length of the dotted crotchet<
I meant the dotted quavers; and all the conductors play them in the same written rhythm, but Herreweghe [9] plays them with the least staccato (which is what I meant by the "longest tenuto".
Also, I didn't express, in a very clear manner, the comment about a certain likeness at the end of the accompanied recitative in BWV 91, that is reminiscent of the Agnus Dei in the BMM (BWV 232), but Doug at least knows what I mean. |
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Omy Maiers wrote (February 23, 2009):
<> |
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Neil Halliday wrote (February 25, 2009):
If you need some good cheer don't miss Koopman's [14] rousing bass aria, from BWV 110. Mertens is terrific.
Amazon.com
(click on the mp3 section) |
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Marcel Gautreau wrote (February 26, 2009):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< all the conductors play them in the same written rhythm, but Herreweghe [9] plays them with the least staccato (which is what I meant by the "longest tenuto" >
So is there any recorded performance you might say was the most "frenchified"? Since I've been listening to a lot of French baroque lately, I found at least the Leusink [12] rather flat (not to say flatulent). My connection tonight is abysmally slow, so I'm not having any luck downloading samples of other recordings, but I'd like to hear one or two whose opening movement is a little "lighter".
Out of curiosity, I dug up a recording of the Orchestral Suites (Naxos, Müller-Brühl, Cologne Chamber Orchestra 1998) and listened to the Ouverture; much better.
[Apologies to the non-umlautists; I was going to give them up for Lent, but changed my mind... But do take advantage of the low prices on umlauts from shopping.yahoo.com] |
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Neil Halliday wrote (February 26, 2009):
Marcel Gautreau wrote:
>I found at least the Leusink [12] rather flat (not to say flatulent). My connection tonight is abysmally slow, so I'm not having any luck downloading samples of other recordings, but I'd like to hear one or two whose opening movement is a little "lighter".<
I agree the Leusink [12] lacks 'panache'; I think you will find that Koopman [14] and Herreweghe [9] both display the necessary "flamboyance", while Herreweghe is slightly slower with a more 'stately' effect, a desirable attribute in this particular overture,IMO.
(But get a decent internet connection if you can - descriptive words such as those I have used above are hardly any use at all, unless we can both hear the samples).
I see the BCW also has samples from Rilling's later lecture series of cantatas [10]; I find the performance of the 'french overture' to be rhythmically rigid (Rilling persists with a sharp staccato on the 1/16th note in the 'dotted-quaver plus 16th note' groups, the opposite of typical HIP examples). I suspect many will prefer Rilling's earlier recording, at least in the 'grave' sections.
>I'd like to hear one or two whose opening movement is a little "lighter"<
Fair enough, but does your conception of the music also include the word "splendour"? After all, it's scored for a very large orchestra, with trumpets blaring and drums a-pounding! Very regal, with a wistful minor key section in the middle (minus the brass and drums). |
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Marcel Gautreau wrote (February 26, 2009):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< I agree the Leusink [12] lacks 'panache'; I think you will find that Koopman [14] and Herreweghe [9] both display the necessary "flamboyance", while Herreweghe is slightly slower with a more 'stately' effect, a desirable attribute in this particular overture,IMO.
After all, it's scored for a very large orchestra, with trumpets blaring and drums a-pounding! Very regal... >
Thanks - I'll listen through some of these on the weekend. I'm less concerned about the overall tempo (within reason - Boult's "Messiah" comes to mind) than with the "affect" of the performance.
I think there's often an unfortunate confusion between "stately" and "cumbersome". Big forces shouldn't equate to a ponderous performance. The French ouverture style evokes all sorts of adjectives: regal, dramatic, splendour(ous?), pompous if you like, or in a religious context like this one, even jubilation. Not to mention all the tired old French ones: verve, élan, esprit, vigeur (cher majesté Louis & all that). To my ear, playing the grave sections "as written" and too slowly just flops. The intended "affect" demands a lighter touch. All of this IMVHO by the way.
< (But get a decent internet connection if you can >
Ordinarily I have no problems with my cable connection, it just seemed particularly obstinate last night. I was finally able to hear a clip of Koopman's version [14] of the opening movement before giving up. |
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Fidelio Records wrote (February 26, 2009):
Günther Ramin - BWV 110 Unser Mund sei voll lachens
Due to increased demand for the new Günther Ramin Edition in the USA, Volume 1 will now be available for US customers from our website: www.fidelio-records.com
The CD [1] contains BWV 110 and BWV 21 'Ich hatte viel Bekümmernis' as well as a very rare recorded spoken introduction by Ramin himself. This exciting new release, a limited collectors' edition, should not be missed as these recordings are not likely to be published again. |
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Marcel Gautreau wrote (March 1, 2009):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< I see the BCW also has samples from Rilling's later lecture series of cantatas [10]; I find the performance of the 'french overture' to be rhythmically rigid (Rilling persists with a sharp staccato on the 1/16th note in the 'dotted-quaver plus 16th note' groups, the opposite of typical HIP examples). I suspect many will prefer Rilling's earlier recording, at least in the 'grave' sections. >
My connection seems back to normal - finally able to download the Rilling [6] & Koopman [14] recordings. The former is, for my opinionated tastes, far too maudlin. At the risk of offending some, I find the tempo just plain laughable.
Koopman [14] is better - he at least keeps things moving - but the slavish note-perfect rhythm is disappointing. Perhaps it's supposed to be "German-French" instead of "French-French"? My mother would say it's too "heavy", but then she thinks all Bach is heavy. (I agree, but not in the same sense of the word...). [An aside - as with localized Latin pronunciation, maybe there were specific localized ways of performing a French-style ouverture? Kind of like my neices' & nephews' obsession with 70s stuff; what they call 70s is only superficially like the real thing; I was there, although I'd never admit it.]
[Since we like to think of ourselves as sophisticated multi-culturalists, we have any number of Hyphenated-Canadian adjectives, so take your pick.] |
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Neil Halliday wrote (March 2, 2009):
Marcel Gautreau wrote:
>Koopman [14] is better - he at least keeps things moving - but the slavish note-perfect rhythm is disappointing. Perhaps it's supposed to be "German-French" instead of "French-French" My mother would say it's too "heavy", but then she thinks all Bach is heavy.<
Wel, the music is German! - admittedly with the 'grave' sections in the "French overture" style, but still seen through Bach's - German - eyes'.
I'll see if I can locate an example of BWV 110/1 with "frenchified" double dotting and pointed 1/32nd note runs in fast tempo, your preferred style, and report back to you.
Laughable tempos? It's all a matter of taste, no need for anyone to be offended (as we might be offended, for example, by some hard-right (or left) political views, or fundamentalist religious views); believe it or not, some conductors can "keep things moving" even at very slow tempos with "slavish note perfect rhythm", and at the same time express the splendour, flair, and 'romance' of the form. |
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Marcel Gaureau wrote (March 3, 2009):
< Well, the music is German! - admittedly with the 'grave' sections in the "French overture" style, but still seen through Bach's - German eyes'.
Laughable tempos? It's all a matter of taste, no need for anyone to be offended >
Perhaps you're right & I'm being too critical. I did get a copy of Tafelmusik's rendition of the Orchestral Suites at Friday's concert (good thing I didn't take a lot of cash with me, I'd have needed a truck), and their interpretation is largely the same , i.e. as-written quavers & semi-quavers. Any "frencher" recording you can find would still be appreciated :) |
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BWV 110 out of the CD? [Tölzer Knabenchor ML] |
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Rocío Sli wrote (August 29, 2009):
The LP of 1972 with the Bach-Magnificat (Collegium Aureum) included BWV 110 [5]. This Cantata in the CD has been replaced by the Magnificat of C.P.E. Bach, with a quite bad trompetist... Is it not possible to find this Cantata in CD-Editions? There is another Cd of Bach Cantatas with Collegium Aureum, the soloists are Wilhelm Wiedl and Seppi Kronnwitter. Is that available in CD? The label was Emi, I think.
Thanks a lot for your infos! |
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Andreas Burghardt wrote (August 29, 2009):
[To Rocío Sli] There is an old LP with recordings of cantatas BWV 137 and BWV 190 from the year 1977 with the Tölzer soloists Willi Wiedl, Sppi Kronwitter and Ulrich Wand. - As far as I know this recording was never reissued on CD.
By the way, cantata BWV 190 was omitted by Harnoncourt and Leonhardt for some reasons, probably because incompleteness of the score or doubts about authenticy. |
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Rocío Sli wrote (August 29, 2009):
It remains a question: If I have understood well, the Tölzer recorded another version of the Bach-Magnificat at the end of the sixties. I supose without boys soloists and also that the Magnificat of C.P.E. comes at the same period. Gerhard Schmidt-Gaden was only Gerhard Schmidt (Where comes the -Gaden from?). In 1974 they recorded the Magnificat and Cantata BWV 110 with Gampert, Hinterreiter and Stein [5]. Is it right? I don't understand why they have replaced Cantata BWV 110 for this old Magnificat of C.P.E. Although I don't know the interpretation of the Cantata, I'm sure that it was better than the C.P.E. Execution.
Is there a CD of "Venezianische Mehrchörigkeit", with Linde? I have heard only a fragment and I didn't recognize the Tölzer! The sound was very different.
Thanks a lot, I'm sorry to bother you and the other members; but I'm so curious...! |
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Kirk Duncan wrote (September 1, 2009):
[To Rocío Sli] Please don't apologise for any of your very intelligent questions or your very educational emails. I learn a lot from reading your emails and the responses from this fabulous group.. Please don't stop. |
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Rocío Sli wrote (September 1, 2009):
[To Kirk Duncan] thanks a lot for your kind message! I'm sorry about the difficulties that you have had to make your carear. It's a pitty that people who want to do anything cannot do it because they have no oportunities. However I think it's worse that people have a lot of oportunities and don't want to do anything, only breath, eat, sleap... Vg.: My pupils. |
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Andreas Burghardt wrote (September 2, 2009):
[To Rocío Sli & Kirk Duncan] sure, there is no reason to apologise for any question, they are most welcome. Unfortunately I can only answer your question in parts:
The Tölzer's recording of the Magnificat by C.P.E. Bach (WQ. 215) was made at the Pfarrkirche Lenggriss in July 1966 under the direction of former Thomaskantor Kurt Thomas and not Gerhard Schmidt-Gaden. It was published many years later together with the Magnificat by J.S. Bach (BWV 243) recorded in 1974 on the CD series 'Baroque Esprit' on the label DHM (deutsche harmoni mundi). I can only guess why these two recordings made so many years apart were combined. Perhaps DHM thought it would be interesting to unite two different versions of the Magnificat, written by father and son and document how the music style has developed within one generation. I agree, the cantata BWV 110 would have been much more interesting.
The 'Gaden' in the name Gerhard Schmidt-Gaden is the birth name of his wife Helga. In German law, probably similar as in other countries, the couple can decide at the marriage which name they want to take. Either the family name of the man or that of the woman, or each one keeps his own name or a combination of the names, hyphenated. I think they have married in 1968. So on some old LPs, printed before 1968, you can still find the name Gerhard Schmidt as director.
Yes, there is a CD "Venezianische Mehrchörigkeit" recorded in 1973 together with the Linde-Consort under the direction of Hans-Martin Linde. It was originally published on LP and later reissued on CD (EMI classics).
I hope that helps. |
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Rocío Sli wrote (September 2, 2009):
[To Andreas Burghardt] Naturly it helps, TKC-Expert! But Helga was Helga Greiner, nicht Helga Gaden, darum. Yes, they married August 1968.
Irsee is coming soon! I'm glad to see a few TKC-fans there. :-) |
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Kirk Duncan wrote (September 6, 2009):
[To Rocío Sli] Hi Rocio, thanks for your thoughts. Obviously, it's also down to me that I didn't have a good musical education but there are also good reasons for that but it's a long story. |
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Andreas Burghardt wrote (September 18, 2009):
[To Rocío Sli] sorry for digging out this topic, but finally I got a copy of this old LP [5]. For your interest, here is an extract, the opening chorus of cantata BWV 110, "Unser Mund sei voll Lachens"
http://www.alice-dsl.net/toelzer1/BWV110UnserMundSeiVollLachens.mp3
Peter Hinterreiter, Sopran
Andreas Stein, Alt
Theo Altmeyer, Tenor
Siemund Nimsgern, Baß-Bariton
Tölzer Knabenchor
Collegium aureum (playing on historic instruments)
Leitung: Gerhard Schmidt-Gaden
(recorded in the Pfarrkirche Lengries, 1972, Deutsche Harmonia Mundi) |
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Rocío Sli wrote (September 18, 2009):
[To Andreas Burghardt] [5] Hinterreiter? Why did I think that it was Willi Wiedl? Oh, I hear it inmediately! Thanks, TKC-Archiv! |
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Rocío Sli wrote (September 18, 2009):
[To Andreas Burghardt] Oh, sorry for my lapsus mentis! Obviously, Hinterreiter! Wiedl was in BWV 137, 6 years later, more or less... OH, it is surprising how changes the sound of the choir in six years, how fast goes its evolution! IN this version with Collegium Aureum all is very staccato, perhaps styl. The trumpet is always bad, and the orchestra not so good... The soloists yes, but they don't sing so much... Oh! I love Hinterreiter in BWV 14 with Harnoncourt. And I love STein much more than Hansi. I supose you know BWV 110 of Teldec -Harnoncourt-, with Wilhelm Wiedl. IT is the last Cantata where Wiedl sings, I think. YOu can hear the changes in his voice in all this solo-parts of Cantatas.
Thanks for all, Andreas! You are a very good fount to learn about theTölzer, a human archiv. |
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Bach BWV110 Ihr Gedanken und ihr Sinnen |
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Albert Zurita wrote (April 15, 2016):
I'm just listening to Bach's cantata BWV110, the Aria 'Ihr Gedanken und ihr Sinnen' for two transverso flutes. I am not an expert, just an advanced listener, but I have noticed the beginning of the aria is in a typical Bach's fugatto style, the 2nd flute entering into play a fifth higher. After that the tenor comes.
I would expect the same movement at the end of the aria, but strikingly both flutes enter at the end in a kind of canon al unison, while I would have expected the same fugued style at the end. Any clues or ideas?
Thanks! |
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Julian Mincham wrote (April 15, 2016):
[To Albert Zurita] Well listened!
The reason is to do with keys and key structure. In the opening instrumental section Bach moves from the key of the piece, B minor to the dominant key F# minor. The quasi fugual entries of the flutes reflect this change of key--as you rightly note, tonic and dominant--B min and F# min.
But at the end he wants to keep the tonic 'home' key of B min and so the flutes both enter in that key. Thus the opening instrumental bars create a feeling of 'setting out' and the final bars one of home, and stability. In both cases Bach retains the keys of the entries of the second flutes. If he had not done this key modification, the aria would have ended in the 'wrong' (by baroque standards) key of F# minor. |
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Albert Zurita wrote (April 15, 2016):
[To Julian Mincham] Thanks for the quick reply!
Yes I'm listening to it again and you're right, the intro part ends in Fbminor, so as you say it would have ended wrong at the end if Bach's would have just copied the starting part. But in any case Bach's entered the 3rd voice (the tenor) at the start in the same Fbminor as the 2nd flute. For a 3-voices fugue I would have expected the flutes to move again back to Bbminor, so that the tenor would have entered in the tonic Bminor; and as a result Bach could have just copied the starting part into the end. That's what I see in many Bach's movements, but perhaps in this case there was also an additional intention of a more peaceful end. who knows ;) |
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Julian Mincham wrote (April 15, 2016):
[To Albert Zurita] It's not a three part fugue though but simply a piece of imitative writing in three parts-----which happens to use the tonic-dominant relationship for the first entry (which Bach does very often) . So I would suggest that one should not place the expectations of fugual writing upon this piece. Were it to be more strictly fugual the tenor entry would have come much closer to the two flute entries. I know of no Bach fugue which has such a long gap between the entries.
Bach frequently does write a strict fugato as the instrumental opening bars to movements but they are longer and usually in four parts--see the openings of the double violin concerto (1st) the A min violin concerto (last) the 4th Brandenburg (3rd) etc etc.
Had Bach been thinking in more strict fugal terms for this tenor aria, the third voice would have been the continuo and the three parts would have then entered with the 'subject' before the vocal entry. |
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Albert Zurita wrote (April 15, 2016):
[To Julian Mincham] Yes I agree that it's not a strict fugue. The continuo only enters with a subject-like bass just before the tenor. Of course not a fugue anyway, but I just wanted to point out this different between the start and the end. In any case, a nice aria! |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (April 17, 2016):
[To Julian Mincham] It is gratifying, and quite nostalgic, to once again enjoy Julian sharing his musical wisdom and teaching skills in the BCW weekly discussion format. Thanks, Mate, for all you have shared with us (and myself in particular!) over the years. Plenty of exchanges for newer members to reference in the BCW archives, not to mention the eText (traditional book soon come?!) which matured out of them. |
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Continue on Part 4 |
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