Cantatas BWV 208 & BWV 208a - Discussions

Sheep may safely graze

Zachary Uram wrote (August 8, 2000):
I just heard a very moving rendition of Bach's "Sheep may safely graze" for orchestra (strings, oboe, etc.) and I have several very excellent recordings of this in vocal form but I don't have it for the pipe organ or other instruments. Can anyone recommend moving recordings of this piece on organ or other instruments? I am curious anyone has sung this with one-voice-per-part? What did Bach score for in this piece in terms single/double choir?

Kevin Sutton wrote (August 9, 2000):
(To Zachary Uram) There is a lovely orchestral version of this work on a Vanguard CD with Leopold Stokowski conducting.

Aryeh Oron wrote (August 11, 2000):
< To Zachary Uram wrote: Can anyone recommend moving recordings of this piece on organ or other instruments? >
This aria is taken from Cantata BWV 208 - Was mir behagt, ist nur die muntre Jagd! This cantata is planned to be discussed in the Bach Cantatas Mailing List later this year - on the week of December 10, 2000.

In the meantime I found one orchestral rendering of this aria for you. It appears on the CD - A Bach Celebration, performed by Christopher Parkening on guitar [P-1]. This CD includes music from Bach cantatas adopted for solo guitar and chamber orchestra. The orchestra is Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra under the leadership of Paul Shure. The adaptation was done by William Walton and it was adopted for guitar and orchestra by Patrick Russ. Details of the CD - EMI Angel CDC-7-47195-2, recorded probably 1985.

Discussions in the Week of December 10, 2000

Aryeh Oron wrote (December 10, 2000):
Background

This is the week of cantata BWV 208 according to Ryan Michero's suggestion. This is the first Secular cantata in our weekly discussions, and what a tasteful feast had Ryan laid before us. I am glad that he chose this one and not the very popular and over played Coffee (BWV 211) and/or Peasant (BWV 212) Cantatas. BWV 208 includes the famous aria for soprano 'Schafe können sicher weiden' ('Sheep may safely graze), which is often used as an introductory piece to the poetical world of Bach, and justly so. I shall not describe here the background to the composition of this earliest of the secular cantatas, nor shall I tell the plot of this mini-opera. Instead I shall quote from the liner notes to the first Rilling's recording, written by Alfred Dürr, which spotlight some of the musical characteristics of this beautiful and enjoyable cantata.

"Bach composition is permeated by the youthful freshness of a first work. The individual movements are still relatively succinct, and not so expansive as in later works. It is just this factor that lends the work its uninterrupted momentum and impact. The recitatives are far removed from the formalism with which Bach's contemporaries, even including the famous Telemann, tended to handle them."

Complete Recordings - Some characteristics

See: Cantata BWV 208 – Recordings.

(1) Karl Forster (1961)
I still like very much Karl Forster recording of SJP (BWV 245), which was the first one I have ever heard. But his hand with this cantata is too heavy to make it a justice.

(2) Helmuth Rilling (1965; 1^st recording)
I remember reading somewhere that Rilling has improved along the years in his recordings of the Bach Cantatas. In the mid 1960's he recorded for Cantate label many of the larger scale secular cantatas (BWV 201, BWV 205, BWV 206, BWV 208, BWV 213, BWV 215, BWV 249a) and few sacred ones. I like all of his recordings from this period. I disagree with the above-mentioned determining. I do not really see what can or should be improved with recordings such as that of BWV 208. The level of the solo singing? The spirited instrumental playing? The warm singing of the choir? The overall charm? OK, it is not HIP, but anyway I feel that the HIP approach is less suited to the secular cantatas than to the sacred ones, and for me it has never been a factor by which I judge the level of a certain recording, the sincerity of its message, or the satisfaction it can give. The thread about the SMP recording by Karl Richter, which took place lately in the Bach Recordings List, proves that I am not alone in the field.

(3) Jürgen Jürgens (probably late 1960's)
I do not have this recording. Based on previous discussions in the Bach Cantatas Mailing List about cantatas which were made by this group of performers, such as BWV 198, BWV 161, and BWV 89, this recording also deserves reissue in CD form. Unfortunately, in Vol.5 of their much-praised Bach-2000 project, Teldec chose to issue a recording of this cantata by Harnoncourt (see below), instead of the more desired recording by Jürgens. Anyway, I found a short review of this recording in the first 'Penguin Stereo Record Guide (1975): "'Was mir behagt, ist nur die muntre Jagd' is a fine secular cantata and well worth acquiring. Its musical invention maintains a high standard and includes the famous 'Sheep may safely graze'. The solo singing is on the whole quite admirable and the performances under Jürgens have both vitality and imagination to commend them". And these praises make the unavailabilty of this recording even more regrettable.

(4) Peter Schreier (1976)
This is a pleasant, delightful and chamber-like rendering, with first rate singers, who are doing their best in their roles.

(5) Roy Goodman (1985)
I do not have this recording.

(6) Nikolaus Harnoncourt (1990)
It is quite astonishing to find Harnoncourt with female soprano singers. Actually, I cannot imagine the soprano roles in this cantata sung by boy sopranos. The playing is more melodic, flowing, ebullient and colourful than was the case with Harnoncourt's recordings of the sacred cantatas.

(7) Mátyás Antál (1992)
This is a nice recording, if somewhat routine in comparison with some of its rivals.

(8) Ton Koopman (1995)
All the good qualities of Koopman's cycle come forth in his rendering of this cantata - charm, elegance, lightness, transparency, and pleasance. All these, combined with first rate singers, contribute to an over-all accomplished and successful performance.

(9) Ludwig Güttler (1996)
I was not familiar with either of the singers in Güttler's recording of the Hunting Cantata. This is very alert rendering, which is too vociferous to my taste. None of the singers impressed me. This rendering 'succeeds' in the almost impossible task of eliminating most of the charm from this cantata.

[11] Gustav Leonhardt (1996)
The main characteristic of this recording is its wonderful and clear playing. The singers are also good enough to please. But some dry and ponderous conducting, which has also marred some of Leonhardt's sacred cantatas recordings, prevent this rendering from lifting.

[10] Helmuth Rilling (1996; 2^nd recording)
I do not have this recording.

Comparison between the recordings of the solo movements for Soprano

Due to limitations of time and space, I decided to concentrate this time in the two couples of recitative and aria for soprano. The first is sung by Diana and the second by Pales. I chose to compare only movements from complete recordings of this cantata. The introduction that precedes ecouple is taken from Dürr's liner notes to the first Rilling's recording.

Mvts. 1+2. Recitative and aria for Soprano I (Diana)
"Right in the opening movement, the free recitative rhythm changes already after four measures into an Arioso that depicts, with changing tempi and various figures, the flight of Diana's arrow, her delight over the catch (Adagio), and then again the swiftness with which the goddess of the hunt hastens after her prey (Presto). The arias only occasionally make use of the typical da capo form; already Diana's aria following the opening recitative employs a free, abridged da capo. The atmosphere of the hunt is emphasized by the two horns. Diana's part, with its trills and leaps, contains some rather virtuoso writing: It was no doubt first interpreted by a singer from the Weißenfels opera."

Anneliese Kupper (with Forster) (1) is very serious and too severe. Also her timbre of voice is old-fashioned and has too much vibrato. Usually the use of this tool does not disturb me so much, as it does to others, but here it is definitely improper. Instead of representing youth, she sounds old. Helen Donath (with Rilling) (2) is tempting and charming you in her recitative and in the aria she easily conquers. Who can refuse her invitation to join the hunting? The horn player adds ebullient and glamorous playing, which matches the singing. Edith Mathis' voice and technique (with Schreier) (4) are impressive, but her singing lacks the sensuality needed to convince you in her message. Yvonne Kenny (with Harnoncourt) (6) singing is light and virtuosic. However it seems to me that she is more busy with the musical challenges of her role than with its textual content. I am impressed but not convinced. Ingrid Kertesi (with Antál) (7) voice is not exceptional, however in her singing she is doing some interesting changes in the vocal lines, extending a certain note here, and adding an ornament there. At first sounded to me somewhat odd, but at later hearings I thought that it was to be a refreshing change. Koopman (8) does also give his singers the freedom to ornament, but here it is done with much more taste. Schlick singing is light, cheerful and tasteful. This aria suits her approach much more than some of the more dramatic cantatas, where she has some difficulties with bringing out their emotional contents. Mona Spägele (with Güttler) (9) takes a lot of freedom in her interpretation, but this approach, combined with the timbre of her voice, is not very attractive or convincing. The loud accompaniment, which is rushing too fast, also contributes to the disappointment from this rendering. This performance would have benefited from more humbleness and softness. Last but not least we have Leonhardt in one of his few post-Teldec-cycle cantata recordings [11]. Monika Frimmer's singing is interesting, inviting and full of joy. The accompaniment is precise if not very special. I would place this rendering somewhere in the middle between the best and the worst recordings of the recitative and aria of Diana.

Conclusion - Donath (with Rilling) (2).

Mvts. 8+9 Recitative and aria for soprano II (Pales)
"The appearance of a new congratulator, is accomplished yet a fourth time employing the musical forms of recitative and aria. Of course, the aria 'Schafe können sicher weiden' ('Sheep can safely graze'), in which Pales praises Christian's supposedly so beneficial manner of governing, has become widely known for its recorder accompaniment. It shows the high level of playing technique at that time, and, simultaneously, Bach's ability to fashion two successive arias with woodwinds accompaniment so differently that the impression of a repetition never occurs."

Erika Köth voice is much lighter than that of Kupper, who sings the part of Diana in Forster recording (1). Although it has the needed lightness, it suffers from the same flaws as that of Kupper. It lacks charm and hardly enjoyable. The flutes' playing is also clumsy. Elisabeth Speiser (with Rilling) (2) is magical as her colleague Donath, and she sounds so innocent and pure, so that through her singing we feel the calmness, happiness and peace. The flutes contribute to the pastoral atmosphere. Arleen Augér (with Schreier) (4) has shown us many times that she knows how to express strong and deep human feelings. Here she is challenged by no less difficult task. And she does it gloriously. Instead of sounding mature, as she often does, she sounds naive and ready to believe in idealistic world, in which all the people have good intentions and want peace and quiet. Angela Maria Blasi (with Harnoncourt) (6) is splendid. She conveys the naivety with confidence, and you are captured. The playing of the flutes is much more polished than what we have used to hear in previous cantata recordings from Harnoncourt. Julia Parszthy (with Antál) (7) voice and singing are ordinary and lacking charm. Like Kertesi she is also making small changes, but this aria is so beautiful in its original form, that it might be spoilt by any minor modification. Elisabeth von Magnus (with Koopman) (8) is also given some space to ornament, and she takes the opportunity with both her hands, and doing it with a lot of charm and tenderness. She does not sound as innocent as some of the other sopranos do, but she conveys optimism and spontaneity and resembles a daughter of the nature, helped by the impeccable and delicate playing of the recorders. The playing of the flutes, which opens the aria in Güttler's recording (9), does not sound clean or pleasant to me. The voice of Claudia Kunz is gentler than that of Spägele (Diana), but I do not find her singing sensitive, innocent or charming at all. I like very much the timbre of Lynne Dawson's voice (with Leonhardt) [11], and her singing is peaceful, happy and convincing. The accompaniment is somewhat disappointing. The recorders' playing is immaculate but not charming and, I do not feel the pastoral atmosphere. Has Leonhardt's at this stage of his long career lost the fresh touch, which is so needed in this earliest of the secular cantatas from the pen of a young composer?

Conclusion - Speiser (with Rilling) (2).

Recordings of individual Movements

The aria for soprano 'Schafe können sicher weiden' (No.9) from BWV 208 has become one of the trademarks of Bach. This movement was performed numerous times individually, either in its original form, or in one of its many adaptations to various combinations of instruments. Below is a list of the recordings of this movement I am aware of. I am sure that there also are many many others. See: Cantata BWV 208 – Recording of Individual Movements.

Personal Viewpoint - The importance of liner notes

Before and during listening to the cantata under discussion, I usually read every written possible source. An important source for many listeners is the liner notes included in the booklet attached to the CD. In older days they were located on the back cover of the LP, and were much easier to read. Nowadays the task is more complicated. We have to take the booklet out of its case, strain our eyes to read those small letters, sometimes in inconvenient font and disturbing background. Who will bother? And in many cases the liner notes are useless. Talking about cantatas, many liner notes fall in the trap of listing the performers, dates, order of the movements and short description of their forms, instrumentation, circumstances and backgroundof the composition, stations in Bach's life, sources of the text, summary of the text. In summary, lot of information, most of it is useless for the purpose of enriching our listening. When I read liner notes, I want that the author will turn my attention to the mood of the piece, important textual and musical details, what is the right way to interpret it, etc. This time I decided to take a closer look in the liner notes of each one of the recordings of Cantata BWV 208 in my possession and to compare them. In the list below the name of the liner notes' author appears within brackets next to the name of the conductor.

1. Forster (Peter Avis) (1) - Brief and concentrates on telling the story of the plot.
2. Rilling (Alfred Dürr) (2) - Exemplary liner notes - erudite and enlightening. A first rate source for deeper listening.
4. Schreier (Martin Möller) (4) - Similar to that of Forster.
6. Harnoncourt (Wolfgang Marx) (6) - Relatively short. Includes description of the plot. Each movement is covered in one sentence, which lists the instrumentation and nothing more.
7. Antál (author not mentioned) (7) - Similar to that of Harnoncourt.
8. Koopman (Christoph Wolff) (8) - A lot of informative details, but nothing that contributes to out listening.
9. Güttler (Hans-Günther Ottenberg) (9) - Short, but supplies some musical hints for listening.
10. Leonhardt (Malcolm Boyd) [11] - Short and similar to that of Harnoncourt. Boyd mention that it has been suggested that an early version of the 1^st Brandenburg Concerto possibly served as an introduction to the cantata… certainly the parts for the two hunting-horns in Diana's aria find an echo in the concerto. I do not recall reading this in any of the other liner notes.

My conclusion is that most of the liner notes to the recordings of BWV 208 are short and not very useful. However, we have Dürr. If I had the space, I would quote the whole article. But due to limitations of space (this review is already too long) I used only parts from it as a general introduction to the cantata and before the comparison between the recordings of the soprano movements.

The liner notes are important for deeper listening. No one is being forced to read them. I know many people who are enjoying hearing the cantatas without reading any liner notes, and even without reading the libretto. But if you want to enrich the way you listen to the cantatas, understanding the text and good written guide are important. You will discover many meanings, layers and details, which you were not aware to their existence. You will find how endlessly rich Bach Cantatas world is, and you will enjoy it more, much more. Indeed, it demands some effort, but is worth it. As we have learnt from many Bach Cantatas, to way to happiness demands some sacrifice and agony.

The best way to compensate oneself for dull liner notes is to read a good book about the cantatas, which analyse each one of them. The best of their kind are Alec Robertson and W. Murray Young. This is why I quote so often from them in my weekly cantata reviews. But, alas, both books are out of print. Much wider available is Simon Crouch's site. I have read the best in the field is the book of Alfred Dürr, but it is available only in German and AFAIK it has not been translated yet into English.

Conclusion

Recording - My vote goes for the first Rilling's recording (2). Second place is shared by Schreier (4), Harnoncourt (6) and Koopman (8).
Liner notes - Alfred Dürr, for the same recording (2)

And as always, I would like to hear other opinions, regarding the above mentioned performances, or other recordings.

Jane Newble wrote (December 15, 2000):
When my son hears some Bach he does not like, he says that he probably got paid by the note for this one. I'm sure Bach would have loved that!

It is, however, a bit how I feel, listening to this cantata. I'm not sure what the problem is, but it just does not inspire me.

Perhaps it is the triviality and meaninglessness (to me) of the words. Perhaps it is that I don't feel in the mood for anything to do with hunting. Perhaps it is because I have only the Peter Schreier version (4) and cannot compare.

There are some nice moments, like the second aria with the horn and the safely grazing sheep, and the chorale, but as a whole, I'm afraid it does not do much to me.

Nevertheless, I would like to thank Aryeh for his excellent analysis and comparison (as usual), and for taking the trouble to read all the notes in the CD booklets!

I felt I should say something, even if it is not very much, and not very positive! Sorry about that!!

Andrew Oliver wrote (December 16, 2000):
I, too, thought that this was the week for BWV 64. I now realize that the list I printed out was revised, so that BWV 64 and BWV 208 changed places.

I do not have BWV 208.

Impromptus: Bach's themes (BWV 208)

Henri N. Levinspuhl wrote (January 10, 2004):

Chasing merrily after a wholesome delight when the days are well ruled, and not therefore as a lazy and careless disorder of life, but as a joy settled in good consciousness, and not therefore as a heap of anxieties rising from the ruins of a cauterized consciousness, but as a gracious day shining on him who uses well his own scepter of time, and not therefore imbued with the insidious art of greed, the hidden art of plundering, or enticed into passions utterly askew (despite of those learned inclined to set them free), but as an innocent fresh air, a lovely walk in the meadows and woods, with an arrow traveling towards its prey: Bach's music.

Discussions in the Week of February 13, 2005

Neil Halliday wrote (February 12, 2005):
BWV 208: Introduction

The cantata for discussion during the coming week (Feb. 13-19) is the secular cantata: BWV 208.

"Was mir behagt, ist nur die muntre Jagd" ("Hunting Cantata").

Event: Composed for the birthday of Duke Christian of Saxony-Weissenfels on February 23, 1713.

Link to texts, commentary, music examples, and list of known recordings: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV208.htm

Contributions from list members during the previous round of discussions: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV208-D.htm

(Thanks to Aryeh for his detailed description and impressions of movements from 9 recordings).

----------------------

This cantata contains the famous aria known in English as "Sheep may safely graze" (movement #9), scored for soprano, two recorders, and continuo.
____

From the Rilling booklet (1996 recording):

"Bach felt himself encouraged by the secular subject matter to try using for the first time in a cantata the then modern forms of Italian opera, especially alternating recitatives and arias".

While Salomo Franck's mythology-based text might be forgetable, the six arias, two choruses and one duet all contain delightful music.

The choruses (movements #11 and 15) are lively and tuneful (as are all the movements); and include horns (for the first time in a cantata), oboes and bassoon as well as strings; Bach once again has written the cello and violone parts on separate staves, with the BGA score in #11 showing the bottom stave marked "Continuo, grosso violone". An oddity is the employment of two sopranos (S1, S2), and no alto.

The Rilling booklet notes that Bach later parodied two of the arias, movements #7 (for B) and #13 (for S2), in BWV 68, using new texts for the church cantata; and the final chorus was parodied twice, first to make the opening chorus of BWV 149, and later to form the conclusion of BWV 193 (but this relationship is complex; BWV 193 has apparently not survived intact). Moreover, the entire cantata was reused in 1716 for the birthday (or wedding) of Ernst-August of Saxony-Weimar, and as late as 1740, for the name day of Elector Friedrich August II.

BTW, with the recent Rilling recording, one gets the bonus of a delightfully lively recording of the first movement of the first Brandenburg Concerto; quote: "Since a festive homage cantata does not begin with a recitative, but demands to be allowed to make a representative entrance, we can suppose that the 1^st movement of the Brandenburg Concerto in F BWV 1046, which requires the same instruments, or an early form of it, was played here."

In addition, BWV 1040 (a trio) is played at the end of the soprano aria (movement no.13), since it is based on this aria, and as an orchestral ritornello, was once annexed to the score of this cantata (if I read the notes correctly).

I hope to see many of you participating in the discussion.

Doug Cowling wrote (February 12, 2005):
Neil Halliday wrote: < The cantata for discussion during the coming week (Feb. 13-19) is the secular cantata: BWV 208. >
There isn't a score online. Can anyone post one for the discussion?

Thanks

Thomas Braatz wrote (February 13, 2005):
BWV 208 - Which 'hunting horns'?

Some important considerations:

The 'hunting' horns

Which 'horns' did Bach use for BWV 208?

Unfortunately there is not a single trace of any of the original parts that must have been used by Bach for numerous performances. These would have been helpful in many ways, but particularly in deciding beyond any doubt which instruments Bach had wanted in the ensemble.

Fortunately we have Bach's autograph score with his own indications/instructions written down in various places of the score.

Here is the main title of Mus. Ms. Bach P 42 in Bach's own handwriting (the watermark of the paper was produced only between 1709 and 1714):

>>Cantata â 4 Voci. 2 Corni di Caccia. 2 Violini una Viola ê Cont.<<

The "Bach-Werke-Verzeichnis" (BWV) [Breitkopf & Härtel, 1998] confirms this by listing "Cor da Cac I,II" as members of the ensemble.

Above the first line of music, Bach writes >>Diana.<<

Then, after the end of the 1st recitative and above the beginning of mvt. 2, Bach writes:

>>2 Corni è Soprano<<

Regarding this, the Csibas in "Die Blechblasinstrumente in J. S. Bachs Werken" [Kassel, 1994, p. 38] take issue with the NBA which lists 2 corni da caccia and state that they have examined the score and find that Bach clearly marked mvts. 2 and 11 with 'Corno' and not 'Corno da caccia.' [In mvt. 11, Bach marked the beginning of the two musical lines with 'Corno I' and 'Corno II.' By the time Bach got to mvt. 15, he did not mark these instruments at all. Personally, I would have to agree with Alfred Dürr (the editor of the NBA KB I/35) and the confirmation by the BWV, that 'Corni da caccia' were intended by Bach to be playing all the way through this cantata. It seems reasonable to conjecture that, as Bach continued composing the cantata, he would abbreviate the cumbersome designation "corno da caccia" to save time and because of limited space on the manuscript.]

Assuming this intended instrument to be a corno da caccia, we are then talking about the corno da caccia in F having a length of tubing of 12 ft. In comparison, the famous Haußmann portrait of Gottfried Reiche shows him holding a corno da caccia in C (8 ft. length), a tightly coiled instrument which approximates the sound of the tromba in C of the same length. There is only a slight difference in tone quality between both instruments caused by the flare of the bell and the 'Stürze' [a technical term - I don't know what this is.] The corno da caccia in F is tuned a fifth lower than a tromba in C, and, although it has the same length as the corno in F, it has a sound much more like a natural trumpet (its bore is primarily cylindrical which the corno is not.)

Bach used the tromba, tromba da tirarsi or clarino in 72 compositions (trumpet family)
Bach used the corno (horn family) in 42 (41 if we exlude BWV 208)
Bach used the trombones in 14
Bach used the cornett in 12
Bach used the corno da caccia in 9 (10 if we include BWV 208)
Bach used the corno da tirarsi in 3
Bach used the corne du chasse in 2
Bach used the lituus in 1

Bach's Brandenburg Concerto I (BWV 1046) was composed for 2 corni da caccia in F as well. Other noteworthy instances where Bach uses this instrument at this pitch are BWV 213/1&13; BWV 248 (IV)/36&42; BWV 1071 (a reworking of BWV 1046.)

I was very much surprised that Konrad Küster, from whose book I translated an extended passage this past week, in his discussion of BWV 208 does not even comment on the manner in which BWV 208 opens - a short recitative. Isn't there something missing here? To open this cantata (with no large church organ present), could there have been a special fanfare which featured primarily the corni da caccia?

Or better yet---

In his discussion of BWV 1046, Michael Marissen, in his "The Social and Religious Designs of J. S. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos" [Princeton University Press, 1995,] mentions in a footnote on p. 21 that "many Bach scholars maintain that an earlier version of the First Brandenburg Concerto probably served as a 'sinfonia' for the cantata "Was mir behagt, ist nur die muntre Jagd! BWV 208, a work that, according to Dürr, ed., NBA I/35 .was in existence by early 1713..Yoshitake Kobayashi.has suggested that this date might even be moved back to 1712."

Marissen (on. pp. 22-23) gives a very interesting historical background for this instrument specifically referring to them as >>'Corni da caccia' (hunting horns)<<, but let the reader, or better yet, let the listener be aware that these instruments sounded more like trumpets than horns. How many recordings of BWV 1046 use horns and horn replacements other than the 'corni da caccia' that are required? Are there any that definitely and reliably use 'corni da caccia'? Which instruments are used in the current recordings of BWV 208? Do they sound more like horns or trumpets?

Corni da caccia are rarely used by Bach as a single instrument (in BWV 232 - the Csibas have a very interesting discussion of its use in this context and why it should sound an octave higher) and there is one instance where Bach uses 3 in BWV 143/1,5,7, However, in most instances these instruments are used in pairs.

Suggestion:

Play the first mvt. of the first Brandenburg before beginning to listen to BWV 208.

Doug Cowling wrote (February 13, 2005):
Thomas Braatz wrote: < Corni da caccia are rarely used by Bach as a single instrument (in BWV 232 - the Csibas have a very interesting discussion of its use in this context and why it should sound an octave higher) and there is one instance where Bach uses 3 in BWV 143/1,5,7, However, in most instances these instruments are used in pairs. >
The question of whether the horns play an octave higher "in alt" is fascinating. I was amazed in McCreesh's Epihany Mass recording of the Missa Brevis in F and "Sie Werden Aus Saba" that his players were playing "in alt". He has a very interesting note that Harnoncourt wanted to perform these horn parts an octave higher in his cantata recordings but his players lacked the expertise Listen to the opening of McCreesh's "Gloria" to hear this extraordinary sound of horns sounding almost like trumpets.

Neil Halliday wrote (February 13, 2005):
BWV 208; and Rilling (1996) [10]

The 1^st movement of BWV 1046, performed at the start of this recording, is given with vitality and clarity, the stereo image being a pleasing factor. The horns, designated simply `corno' in the booklet, are full of character and in tune, yet expressively sounding with different force on different notes. This is a most enjoyable performance from Rilling'ensemble.

(BTW, the BGA score only has the designation `corno da caccia" for the first soprano aria; thereafter, the designation is simply `corno'.

The first aria (movement #2, after the first recitative) scored for soprano, 2 corno da caccia and continuo, is lively and bright, if somewhat superficial to my ear. Rubens' vibrato borders on being irritating. (I think Rilling is using the same `corno' as in the Brandenburg movement at the start, the booklet makes no mention of `corno da caccia'; is there a modern equivalent?).

The tenor aria (#4) is based on a lively, engaging continuo `sentence', which is more or less repeated in an ostinato fashion throughout the aria. Graced with the excellent singing from tenor James Taylor, this is an enjoyable movement.

The bass aria (#7) is a substantial movement scored for 3 oboes and continuo. It is a grand musical setting, effectively in 12/8 time, of the somewhat obsequious text ("a country without its Prince is like a body without a soul, lacking its finest part" etc, etc) impressively serving its purpose of lauding the prince. Matthias Goerne has a powerful yet gentle voice with controlled vibrato, most enjoyable.

The well-known soprano aria (#9) is sprightly in this recording, fortunately enhanced by the judicious use of pizzicato on the double bass to accent the continuo line and add depth to the music. Sheep, ie, us, can safely graze under the care of our prince. The lovely musical setting of the words is justly famous.

The first of the two choruses (#11) is fugal in nature. Starting with the sopranos, the lively fugue subject, with a strong rhythmic pulse, is successively handed down to the lower voices, until the `grosso violone', in a separate entry, takes it up in the range an octave below the bass voice, making 5 successive initial entries of the subject - an unexpected touch.

Rilling's Gächinger Kantorei displays precision and clarity in all parts, matched by the excellent playing from the Bach Collegium Stuttgart.

The S1,T duet (#12), attractively sung by Rubens and Taylor, features an engaging part for solo violin; and the following lively and tuneful aria for S2 and continuo (#13) has the pleasing instrumental arrangement for oboe, violin and continuo (BWV 1040) attached.

A somewhat angular continuo bass aria (#14) leads to the final chorus (#15). Homophonic in structure, this chorus has an engaging syncopated rhythm (in triple time), with the 3^rd beat of the bar being stressed, at the expense of the first beat. (Get your beat right when you start conducting it!).

The choral writing on the word "besieget" ("conquers') is especially impressive, with its brilliant imitative vocal counterpoint supported by the powerful rhythm of the accompaniment.

Dale G edcke wrote (February 14, 2005):
Thomas Braatz wrote: "Assuming this intended instrument to be a corno da caccia, we are then talking about the corno da caccia in F having a length of tubing of 12 ft. In comparison, the famous Haußmann portrait of Gottfried Reiche shows him holding a corno da caccia in C (8 ft. length), a tightly coiled instrument which approximates the sound of the tromba in C of the same length. There is only a slight difference in tone quality between both instruments caused by the flare of the bell and the 'Stürze' [a technical term - I don't know what this is.] The corno da caccia in F is tuned a fifth lower than a tromba in C, and, although it has the same length as the corno in F, it has a sound much more like a natural trumpet (its bore is primarily cylindrical which the corno is not.)"
MY COMMENTS:

It is certainly not obvious what is meant by the term, 'Stürze'.

My German/English dictionary lists the translation of "Stürzen" as "to throw down, upset, overturn, overthrow, fall, tumble, rush, or dive".

1) I suspect 'Stürze' refers to the taper of the bore of the instrument in the tubing between the mouthpiece and the final, drastic taper of the bell. A Corno would have a gentle, conical taper in this long section of tubing, wheras a Corno da Caccia would have a more constant bore diameter. That certainly causes a difference in tone.

2) However, the term could refer to the taper of the tubing in the immediate vicinity of the mouthpiece, or it could be referencing the backbore taper of the mouthpiece.

Given the contrast in tone that is being described, I think explanation 1) is the more likely.

Thomas Braatz wrote (February 14, 2005):
[To Dale Gedcke] Here are some other possible meanings that I have found:

1. 'lid' as in putting a lid on a pot; the 'lid' on a German Bierstein

2. as a verb: to turn something inside out or upside down.

Here are some technical terms (nouns) describing brass instruments in the book by the Csibas:

Zwingen
Knauf
Zierkranz (embossed decoration on the bell)
Schallstück (bell?)
Mundrohr (only the tubing of the mouthpiece?)
Mundstück (mouthpiece)
Kessel (the part of the mouthpiece that looks like a pot)
Trichtermundstück (mouthpiece looking like a funnel)
Rohrverlauf (length of the tubing)
Doppelzug (curved bow/crook which is movable)
Setzstück
Seele (the 'soul' - a part/special attribute of the bore)
Bohrung (bore)
Hinterbohrung (the bore 'behind'?)
Ansatz (the lip of the mouthpiece)
Kesseltiefe (depth of the opening in the mouthpiece)
Kesselbohrung (the bore of the 'pot' part of the mouthpiece)
Windungsdurchmesser (the diameter of the coils)
Setzstück (tube extension)
Zug (a bit of tubing that can be added between the mouthpiece and the rest of the instrument; it can be movable or fixed during playing)
Bogen (bow or bend or crook)

These are some of the terms that I am not certain about since they are not present in any normal dictionary (even a large German dictionary!) Any help in fixing the meanings of these words would be appreciated. I would like to know if my translations (actually guesses at the meanings) are reasonable correct and also find out the meanings for the ones for which I have no translation or a poor one like 'lid.'

What is the difference between Schallstück and Stürze?

Thomas Braatz wrote (February 14, 2005):
Doug Cowling wrote: >>The question of whether the horns play an octave higher "in alt" is fascinating. I was amazed in McCreesh's Epihany Mass recording of the Missa Brevis in F and "Sie Werden Aus Saba" that his players were playing "in alt". He has a very interesting note that Harnoncourt wanted to perform these horn parts an octave higher in his cantata recordings but his players lacked the expertise Listen to the opening of McCreesh's "Gloria" to hear this extraordinary sound of horns sounding almost like trumpets.<<
Paul McCreesh states in the notes:

"The horns in Cantata BWV 65 ["Sie werden aus Saba"], probably for the first time ever, are played in C alto, that is at trumpet pitch"

What we do not find out about this performance are important details that would clarify whether these are modern instruments (horns) or modern replicas of a horn in C major with adaptations (slides and/or finger holes) to make them easier to play in tune. According to the Csibas' list of brass instruments used to play specific works and mvts. by Bach, the horns (corni) that Bach used came in the following sizes of
instruments:

Corno in C (16 feet long)
Corno in D (14')
Corno in F (12')
Corno in G
Corno in A
Corno in B (this could be tuned down to A, G, F, Eb, and D (14') by use of additional, insertable coils or crooks)
Corno in D (7')

Bach clearly demands for BWV 65 "2 Core du Chasse" which are not the same as the other 'corni' of the period. This 'corne du chasse' in C (8') This is also known as a 'Parforcehorn' or 'Corne par force' which is described as an very widely coiled (up to 100 cm diameter) instrument with the bell projecting backwards over the shoulder of the player. The bore is quite narrow and has various conical and cylindrical sections beginning to approach somewhat the type of construction used up to the present day in making horns. The sound of the corne du chasse, however, as expected from an instrument used at first primarily in hunting, is described as 'rüde' ["coarse,uncouth."] [Of course, Gottfried Reiche on this instrument would play circles around the usual troupe of hunting horns used by nobility.] Nevertheless, there would be a special sound that Bach wanted and, compared to BWV 109 where Cornes du chasse in C (16') play an octave lower than the basic tromba in C. As indicated above, Bach wants these Cornes du chasse to be played at the same high pitch level of the tromba in C. Perhaps McCreesh was attempting to approach this, as he states: "brilliant sound of the high horns," by having whatever type of horns he had at his disposal play at the higher octave. This, at least, is a step in the right direction, as the high horns lend "an extraordinary dimension to the baroque sound." Too bad that for a special recording which prides itself in making things as 'authentic' as possible, the listeners are left uninformed regarding the instruments actually being used. There are still distinctions in the quality of sound which have not been heeded, but at least the pitch of these instruments seems to be correct.

This is an exciting recording. If there is one thing that a listener 'comes away with' and remembers later on, it will be the horns playing in BWV 65/1 (and BWV 233/2 etc.)

Unfortunately we do not have a single note of BWV 233 (also with horns) directly from Bach's pen. We have to assume that he may have directed Altnickol, his son-in-law, to mine some earlier works (mvts. 1, 4, 5, 6 are taken from earlier works by Bach) and assembled them for preserving them sometime between 1744 and 1748. Bach did not make a single correction or addition to this copy. The copy calls for 'corni all unisono' (mvt. 1) and lists 'Corno I and Corno II' (mvt. 2.) The copy begins mvt. 2 with the C (C major signature) in the middle of the treble clef while the other instruments are begin with the F below that in the key of F. The NBA has all instruments playing an F (the violin as well as the 1^st horn begin on the same F. Perhaps this may be part of the reason that McCreesh has the horns play an octave higher here.

Continue on Part 2

Cantatas BWV 208 & BWV 208a: Complete Recordings of BWV 208 | Recordings of Individual Movements from BWV 208 | Details of Cantata BWV 208a | Discussions: Part 1 | Part 2

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Last update: ýJuly 26, 2005 ý08:47:47