Scores of Bach Cantatas

Scores and Bach's compositions

Andrew Oliver wrote (November 13, 2000):
(To Marie Jensen) I have about 20 cantata vocal scores. (I don't have one for BWV 109.) You are right - it can be very useful to follow the score while listening, because it is possible to notice things which might otherwise be missed. Unfortunately, I do not know of anywhere on the net where they may be seen. The ones I have are published by Breitkopf & Härtel.

I don't think you could call any of Bach's composition dodecaphony. Although some of his modulations from key to key, and some other features, seem to be almost modern in their effect, they are nevertheless always tightly under his control, fitting into his overall scheme of keys. These modulations sometimes appear to be random and aimless, but they always have a purpose, and they always end up where Bach wants them to end. The same applies to chromatic progressions. When one part moves in semitone steps, you will normally find that the underlying harmony of the other parts changes with each step. For instance, in the Matthew Passion (BWV 244), No.38 (chorale), the bass line moves at one point F, F#, G, A flat, A,B flat. Each of these notes forms part of a chord which is based on: F, D, G, D, F, B flat. It would have been possible to harmonize the melody above this sequence simply by using chords based on F and B flat, but Bach's way is much more interesting.

I think it is partly because of Bach's mastery of all the little details of composition that he is held in such high esteem and respect by musicians, (and not only classical musicians), much more than he is by the general public. Beethoven said of him "Nicht Bach aber Meer haben wir hier", (we have here not a stream but an ocean) (Bach = stream). Mozart said "He is the father, and we his children". Mendelssohn was a major force in reviving Bach's choral music.

Sorry to ramble, but this is a vast subject to deal with in a few lines.

Marie Jensen wrote (November 14, 2000):
(To Andrew Oliver) Thank you for your kind explanation.

Needs to by Bach’s complete cantatas score

Alexei Zouboff [Moscow, Russia] wrote (April 23, 2002):
I would like to buy a a complete set of all Bach cantatas (score). One of the best solution would be the NBA edition, but it is, of course, extremelly expensive.

Would you please give me any advice? I need score (not piano-vocal transcription), and, preferably, good critical edition - at least, AFTER NBA, "Urtext" - you understand what I mean.

Also it is better to be available in USA.

I found the followint at amazon.com:

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y4700297Y0619996/102-1087142-7469736

(If you follow this URL, please be sure you insertes the whole URL address, since the mailer may wrap the lines at "-" places).

This is "J.S. Bach Cantatas / Complete Set" from zShops / Creative Music. Unfortunately, there is absolutely no information on that page about the edition. May be someone can identify this edition?

Kevin Sutton wrote (April 23, 2002):
< Alexei Zouboff wrote: I would like to buy a a complete set of all Bach cantatas (score). One of the best solution would be the NBA edition, but it is, of course, extremelly expensive. >
Well, there really isn't another solution. They are published seperately by Barenreiter, and some are available through Carus Verlag, but if you are looking for complete scores, the NBA is about the most economical way to go in the long run. They are bloody expensive though.

Michael Ferguson wrote (April 23, 2002):
[To Alexei Zouboff] This is probably a long shot, but I remember that the complete series of Bach cantata recordings made by Leonhardt and Harnoncourt, that is, when they were first released as LPs (long-playing records, remember those?) contained the NBA scores of every cantata performed on each set of records, so if you had the complete series of records, you would have the complete NBA cantatas. These were in reduced page format, so you need strong eyes, but they were as clearly printed as any other quality miniature score.

I don't know what your chances are of finding a complete set of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt Bach cantatas on LP, but perhaps if you tried the internet as a source for used LPs, you might find them. The series is of course still available on CDs, but these do NOT include the scores. I myself have only a few of the LPs, with the scores, but not the complete set. Perhaps someone else on this list can help you find a complete set for sale on LP.

Good luck with your search.

Announcement – Scores of the Sacred Cantatas

Aryeh Oron wrote (April 25, 2002):
Couple of days ago I received a message from Yu Chao, Tianjin, P.R. China, saying that he compiled all the scores of Bach's Cantatas and put them on his Website http://www.bh2000.net/score/.

These are neither the BG nor the NBA editions (for explanation of BG and NBA, see: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Terms.htm ), but the Breitkopf & Härtel piano reduction of the orchestral parts with full vocal parts. Nevertheless, I believe that it is better to have them available on-line than nothing at all. Reviews of this edition can be read in the following page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Books/CD-CompleteCantatas.htm

For your convenience, I added links to the entries of each cantata in Yu’s Website ‘Free Sheet-music Library’. See the following pages of the Bach Cantatas Website:
Cantatas BWV 1-50: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores.htm
Cantatas BWV 51-100: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores2.htm
Cantatas BWV 101-150: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores3.htm
Cantatas BWV 151-199: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores4.htm

All the files are derived from public domain music in editions that are in the public domain. So you may freely copy, print, distribute the files. To view or print the PDF (Adobe Portable Document Format) files, please use Adobe Acrobat Reader or Ghostscript. Note: DON'T download more than one file at the same time. DON'T use any multi-thread user agent such as FlashGet, NetAnts.

The pages of the links include also links to ‘Examples from the Score’, which were contributed by Thomas Braatz.

Yu also wrote that his Webserver doesn't have a fast connection to Internet. Therefore he gave me the option of mirroring his pages in the Bach Cantatas Website. I shall consider doing so, if I have enough requests. These are big files, and for this matter I shall need much more space on the server than what I have at the moment (and the Bach Cantatas Website is already quite a large Website!).

Michael Grover wrote (April 25, 2002):
Is anyone else having trouble accessing the scores on Yu's webpages? Every time I try to link to them I get the following message:

"Sorry, the server is unable to handle your request. Have you made too many connections to the server?"

This could be a temporary problem. I'll keep trying.

Eitan Loew wrote (April 26, 2002):
[To Michael Grover]Yes, I'm getting the same error message. Anybody knows what should I do?

Paul Farseth wrote (April 26, 2002):
[To Yu Chao] What a wonderful idea. Thanks to Yu Chao. I will try to download Cantata BWV 56 tonight.

Dick Wursten wrote (April 26, 2002):
[To Paul Faarseth]
Bee Doubleyou Vee fifty six
is the best cantat' there is
Be Doubleyou Vee fifty six
beats all music that exists
BWV 56, BWV 56!
[repeat]

P.S. many thanks to Yu Chao !

Charles Francis wrote (April 26, 2002):
[To Paul Farseth] Yes my thanks too! I do hope Yu Chao is a member of this group - at minimum he should be an honorary member! Anyone tried to sing along and play piano accompaniment at the same time?

Thomas Braatz wrote (April 26, 2002):
< Charles asked: Anyone tried to sing along and play piano accompaniment at the same time? >
Interesting that you should ask this at this time when I have just finished reading a passage from Agricola's book which clearly states how important and advantageous it is for any singer to accompany himself/herself on a keyboard instrument and become acquainted with figured bass:

""Weil es für einen Sänger sehr vortheilhaft ist, wenn er das Clavier spielen kann, und die Regeln des Generalbasses versteht: nicht nur weil er sich alsdenn immer selbst accompagniren, und also singen kann wenn er will, ohne erst immer auf den Begleiter warten zu dürfen; sondern auch weil er die willkührlichen Veränderungen nicht aufs Ohngefähr los, sondern mit Richtigkeit und Sicherheit wird erfinden können: so ist allen, welche was mehr als gemeines im Singen leisten wollen, anzurathen, daß sie ja bey Zeiten das Clavier und den Generalbaß zu studiren sich bemühen." [p. 51]

Not only will the singer not have to wait for an accompanist to appear, but he/she will be able to check intonation constantly so as to develop a better ear for the correct pitches. [This latter notion is from a passage elsewhere in the book.]

Philip Walsh wrote (April 28, 2002):
< Michael asks: Is anyone else having trouble accessing the scores on Yu's webpages?
Every time I try to link to them I get the following message:
"Sorry, the server is unable to handle your request. Have you made too many connections to the server?" >
I have a different problem. I don't have any trouble connecting. Summoning up a score takes a while, but after all, these are fairly large files. Where the problem comes is in trying to save anything. The "Save/Save as" options are not available for this particular file. Clicking on the little diskette symbol starts the saving process, but after a few seconds I get an I/O error message -- something about the file timing out. (I can print out a file, but that's not the same.) Is it me or my system or the source or what?

This is a great site, btw.

Juozas Rimas wrote (April 28, 2002):
< diskette symbol starts the saving process, but after a few seconds I get an I/O error message -- something about the file timing out. (I can print out a file, but that's not the same.) Is it me or my system or the source or what? >
I haven't looked at the particular website but you might try right-clicking on a link and selecting "Save Target/Link As..." It is often the only way to download certain files.

Bach scores

Ron Barak wrote (May 2, 2002):
For all of you who play the piano or something, here's a site that contains many scores of Bach's compositions!

"The Art of Fugue" is also there!!
http://icking-music-archive.sunsite.dk/scores/Instr.html#bach

Sorry if you count it as a warez site but I think that music, especially Bach's should be free to all.

Sybrand Bakker wrote (May 3, 2002):
[To Ron Barak] YEP,
Dead to all music publishers who take the trouble to prepare scientifically justifiable score for us. That is basically what you are saying, aren't you? Or did you prepare the scores from the original manuscript?

Ron Barak wrote (May 2, 2002):
No I say, thanks for these people, and I give you this link to print the scores if you want and play them. Do you think that music must be bought?

I hope you don't. Especially not Bach's and if you do, I guess that you just don't appreciate Bach's music.

Also, I don't think it's illegal, I mean, why would it be?

Sybrand Bakker wrote (May 3, 2002):
[To Ron Barak] Please try to think a little.

Do you think music publishers will continue to exist when all scores are free? Certainly not! Don't you think that will be the end of all attempts to publish scholarly editions of many composers. Certainly it will be the end.

Obviously you only want to save money and you don't love music. You are violating copyrights owned by the publishers if you do so and YOU KNOW IT. I can't believe your 'Why would it be?' is an honest question, as the answer is easy enough.

YOU love your WALLET more than Bach's music, whatever the consequences are. After a while you and all the people who want to have music cheap will find out publishers are not going to publish the Kiev Bach Archiv, because they know it will be pirated, at that moment you will regret what you have done, but at that point in time it's already TOO LATE.

Your suggestion I don't love Bach's music is an INSULT and an OFFENSE I won't forget. Please try to live up to your family name, you really don't deserve it to be called 'Blessed'

Davyd wrote (May 4, 2002):
< After a while you and all the people who want to have music cheap will find out publishers are not going to publish the Kiev Bach Archiv >
Sorry to interrupt the flame war, but what's the Kiev Bach Archiv? I didn't know JSB ever made it to the Ukraine.

Sybrand Bakker wrote (May 4, 2002):
[To Davyd] The Kiev Bach Archiv is the archive of the former Berlin Singakademie, established late 18th century by J.F Reichardt. The archives were kept in the National Library in Berlin, and due to WW-II they ended up in Kiev. Prof Christoph Wolff has located it there, and currently he and Christopher Hogwood are working on it, to make an inventory. There are also negotations with the authorities to have it returned to Germany. It is very unlikely there will be any unedited JSB works found, as that part was catalogued before WW-II. There will be unedited music of C.P.E. Bach though (several passions and oratoria) and Telemann.

I still think however, no one will provide funds to have it edited, if it is clear those editions will end-up pirated on the Internet.

I think the people promoting such policy really don't know what they are saying. How would Leonhardt and Harnoncourt would have been capable to make a complete recording of the cantatas, if they only mechanism to distribute it was to put it on the Internet. Why are almost all classical divisons of record companies closed down? Precisely because of distribution of pop and rock music, which is from which they make their profit and can afford to record classical music, by means of the Internet. Those people will regret their preference soon.

Mark Slater wrote (May 5, 2002):
Jim scolded Sybrand by saying:
< Don't you understand that hardcopy publication is obsolete? And all the business
>models that are based on hardcopy publication are smelly old corpses? >
Jim, personally, I enjoy my lovely, expensive, bound books. Some of us don't care what they cost.

Then Jim finished with:
< Get real. If you can't get real, at least try to be less tiresome. >
Jim, please be a little more charitable towards Mr. Bakker. He contributes a needed voice here.
JUST MY OPINION.

Ron Barak wrote (May 5, 2002):
Wow, it seems like my family is doomed...

Anyway, do whatever you want. The reason I was so excited that I found these scores is because I didn't know where to buy a version of these scores for organ. I also think that after I'll play alittle with these scores I'll buy the real scores.

But then I'd be broken, wouldn't I? Hehe.

Calm down, or think about something more clever to say :-)

Sybrand Bakker wrote (May 5, 2002):
[To Ron Barak] And you determine what should be considered 'more clever', eh?

Sybrand Bakker wrote (May 5, 2002):
< Jim Michmerhuizen wrote: to Mark Slater:
Well, sure. I mostly don't care either. My shelf of Bach studies is - roughly – the canonical five feet wide, and the contents did not, believe me, come from bargain basements. But that's not the issue I was addressing. >
These are my questions to Mr. Bakker (or to you, Mark, in case Mr. Bakker is unable to rise to the challenge):

[1] Is the Neue Bach Ausgabe being published as a commercial, money-making venture? No. As basically an scientific collected edition of a composer.

If it is not, what are the motives for its publication? Because the BG edition started in 1850 was sold out in 1950 it was deemed necessary a new scholarly edition should be generally available.

[2] Is the Neue Bach Gesellschaft a commercial, profit-oriented venture? The NBG is a foundation! If not, what are its sources of financial support? Memberships and obviously government fundings

[3] Do you believe the scholarly results of the NBG's work should be freely available to anyone. who has need of them?

No. Only the sun is free. Music typesetting is extreemly expensive. Freely available would mean that such an edition would fully rely on government funding, and even then you would probably be forced to have the editors do their work for free.
One can easily imagine what is going to happen. The rescue operation for Bach's manuscripts has received financial support from the German government, but the government has NOT paid all of it.

The issue with the fixed book price in the Netherlands. What will happen when the fixed book price will be dropped? Translators, who consider themselves currently already being underpaid, are afraid they will be paid less or not paid or at all. You can also expect publishers will stop to hire professional translators, and feed their manuscripts to some Internet translator. Evidently, computerized translation will NEVER replace human translation. The same with music editing. But it looks like at least Mr. Michmerhuizen wants to sacrifice professional music editing, or force editors to consider international repute as the primary payment.

Scores of Complete Bach Works in BGA Edition on 3-CD ROM’s

Aryeh Oron wrote (May 3, 2002):
Hi list members of both BCML & BRML,

The question where scores of Bach’s works can be bought has been asked many times in the BCML and the BRML, and I also received many personal inquiries regarding this issue.

Now, at last, there is a satisfactory answer. All the scores of Bach’s works are available on 3 CD-ROM’s. Couple of weeks ago I received the following message:

“For the first time in the history of the Bach-Society/ Leipzig the "Ancient Edition of the Works by Bach" appeared in a professional, digitalized form on three CD-ROM’s with its complete texts, musical notes, contents and facsimiles of about 16,800 pages.

Bach-Gesamtausgabe
Johann Sebastian Bach's Werke
Herausgegeben von der Bach-Gesellschaft zu Leipzig
46 Jahrgänge und Supplement
Leipzig 1851-1899
(Ausgabe Breitkopf & Härtel)
digitalized by F. Steltner © 2001/2002

They can be read by PC and Macintosh with the enclosed programme Adobe® Acrobat Reader 5.0 in German or English and can be printed in all sizes needed with very good results...

The edition costs € 180.- plus delivery charges (to be sent within 3 working days)

Info/choice of pages/samples and order:

www.bachwerke.de
fredsteltner@t-online.de
Telephone: 0581 43022”

I ordered the CD’s at once and within a week they were in my mailbox. They fulfill the expectations.

The liner notes read as follows:
“For the first time in the history of the Bach Society with these volumes the complete ‘Ancient Publications by Bach’ appear in a digitalized form.

The edition of Leipzig Municipal Library has suffered a lot in the course of time since 1851. Bindings have been broken and the condition of the paper has become ruptured and cannot be used for everyday's practical work anymore. Even more: due to water spots the diagonals have been moved out of place.

Because of the stenotype printing of those times you cannot be offered completely white and clear pages. Nevertheless ink or writing spots and those due to dampness were removed carefully. Compared to today's techniques they seem to lessen the quality, but as they are old documents this should not be a disadvantage! The advantage of digitalization is that an important document was saved for the user, more so as these monumental folios are not allowed to be taken home anymore (like nearly all the books dated before 1900). The volumes are a digital copy of the edition by Peters, Leipzig, available in a bound form at Leipzig Municipal Library with more than 16.800 pages (section music, catalogue number D 17). Because of the size of the data the PDF-formation was chosen (300dpi) which can be realized by Internet as well as by PC or Mac ®. The edition for the computer with 75 dpi can at once be enlarged with very good results. It is important to know that the print was reduced from folio into legal. Nevertheless it can be changed into all enlargements or diminutions you ever like.

With the programme Adobe Reader version 5.0 ® all the data can be read by PC vice versa Mac ® quickly. This programme is added to the edition. Laser prints guarantee for best legibility. The index (see textbook) has got advantages, too: because of its clearness you can find items quickly on the CD's. The "Ancient Edition by Bach" have their own indices which can also be made use of for special items in particular.”

BTW, I do not have any commercial interest in this enterprise and I paid full price for my copy. The only deficiency is that this is the BGA (or BG) Edition and not the NBA Edition (see explanation in the following page of the Bach Cantatas Website:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Terms.htm )

It means that they include the complete and full scores of BWV 1-1080, including works, which due later research have been proved to being composed not by J.S. Bach. On the other hand, the latter additions to the BWV are missing. Anyhow, AFAIK, the NBA is not available in digitized form and it should be much more expansive.

Armagan Ekici wrote (May 3, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Could you please write the price of the set again, without using symbols? is it EUR 180?

In the cutest non-commercial tradition they forgot to mention the price in www.bachwerke.de!

Aryeh Oron wrote (May 3, 2002):
[To Armagan Ekici] Indeed, the price is 180 Eur + Shipment fees.

Juozas Rimas wrote (May 3, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Is there any online sources that provide at least a summary of the NBA? (just listing works). I couldn't find a special website on this topic on the internet. Thanks for any guidelines!

Charles Francis wrote (May 3, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Is it COD? I ordered, but wasn't asked for a credit card.

Aryeh Oron wrote (May 3, 2002):
[To Juozas Rimas] Appendix 1 of 'Oxford Composer Copanion - J.S. Bach' has list of all Bach works with columns which indicate the volume numbers in BG and NBA. Unfortunatlrly, AFAIK, this list is not available as such on-line. However, there are some sites which include the BWV list, as you can see in the page:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Links/Links-Cantatas.htm

I consider putting some day a comprehensive updated list of Bach Works on the Bach Cantatas Website (BCW). If I have to prepare it, it will have to wait, because I have plans of higher priority for additions and improvements to the BCW. But if any member of the BCML and/or BRML is ready to prepare it, I shall be happy to put it when it is ready.

Since, some members of the BCML and the BRML are subscibed to NBA, they might give you more satisfactory answers.

Juozas Rimas wrote (May 4, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Thank you!

< Appendix 1 of 'Oxford Composer Copanion - J.S. Bach' has list of all Bach works with columns which indicate the volume numbers in BG and NBA. Unfortunatlrly, AFAIK, this list is not available as such on-line. >
Well, I finally found something titled "Neue Bach-Ausgabe" at
http://www.npj.com/bach/bb-reference.html
But I don't understand the system: the works are categorized but with no NBA numbers. Also, some of the BWV numbers are missing so does this mean that all the missing works are by other composers?

On the other hand, the Wilhelm's notebook is included with the non-Bach works. A mess...:)

Thomas Braatz wrote (May 4, 2002):
< Juozas asked: < Well, I finally found something titled "Neue Bach-Ausgabe" at http://www.npj.com/bach/bb-reference.html But I don't understand the system: the works are categorized but with no NBA numbers. >
The NBA has Roman numerals for major categories followed by regular numbers with occasional decimal points where a printed volume (unplanned as far as I can determine) had to be subdivided. The URL above lands you on the major categories (I = Cantatas, for instance) and when you click on that, you will see everything that has been printed in that category with the number under "Band" = volume giving the specific volume that you are searching for. Combining all this information into a single reference, it would look like this: I/3.2 which contains as you can see, if you clicked on Series I Cantatas, the cantatas for the Sunday after Christmas - BWV 152, 122, 28.

< Also, some of the BWV numbers are missing so does this mean that all the missing works are by other composers? >
There are very few volumes still to be published by the NBA, so the missing BWV numbers may yet be published. These are mainly Bach's arrangements of works by other composers. Sometimes these are given separate BWV numbers, sometimes not. Reductions of Vivaldi concerti are, of course, given separate BWV numbers, but in other cases there are compositions by other composers (with few changes) entirely copied by Bach himself. Perhaps he performed them and made a few corrections. Does that warrant a BWV number? If, however, the work fits specifically into a special category such as Toccatas for keyboard and the BWV once designated is not among them, then current research has eliminated the work as being entirely spurious. What amazes me here is that the KB gives no explanation for such an elimination. In such an instance you really have to have faith that they know what they are doing. Perhaps Bach scholarship has proven the work to not be by Bach, but at least the NBA editor ought to give the reference upon which this decision was based. I am assuming that without any reference, the decision lay with the NBA editors. You may also be looking at Schmieder's original 1950 BWV list, which may not take into account his revised list published in 1990 shortly before his death. The NBA published its volume on the Toccatas in 1999. There is always the possibility that something may have been dropped from the BWV list since 1990.

BGA CD-ROM’s

Rob Potharst wrote (May 11, 2002):
< Thomas Braatz wrote: For all the talk about transparency and clarity of parts in HIP recordings, it is Rilling who usually wins the day if you are listening carefully and reading the score at the same time (as fortunately many more of you will be able to do with the BGA CD-ROMS now available.) ..... >
Are you talking of the cd-roms of all the church cantata's that have been issued by CD Sheet Music, or do you really mean that the Bach-Gesellschaft Edition of Bach's works is available on cd-rom now? If so, I would be very glad: I have the cd-roms by CD Sheet Music, and I enjoy them immensely, printing out a cantata as I want to study it. BUT: they contain actually only the vocal parts, all the intrumental parts are jammed into one piano extract.

Do you know of a cd-rom that has also the instrumental parts separately, just like in the real BGA? Or does anyone?

Aryeh Oron wrote (May 11, 2002):
[To Rob Potharst] I believe that you have missed two messages regarding this issue, which I sent to both the BCML and the BRML not a long while ago:
The first relates to to availabilty of the piano scores on the Web.
The second, to the availabilty of 3-CD-ROM's set of the complete BGA scores for sale.
For your convenience attached are the two original messages:
---------------------------------------------------------
Sent on April 25, 2002:

Announcement - Scores of the Sacred Cantatas

A couple of days ago I received a message from Yu Chao, Tianjin, P.R. China, saying that he compiled all the scores of Bach's Cantatas and put them on his Website http://www.bh2000.net/score/.

These are neither the BG nor the NBA editions (for explanation of BG and NBA, see: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Terms.htm ), but the Breitkopf & Härtel piano reduction of the orchestral parts with full vocal parts. Nevertheless, I believe that it is better to have them available on-line than nothing at all. Reviews of this edition can be read in the following page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Books/CD-CompleteCantatas.htm

For your convenience, I added links to the entries of each cantata in Yu's Website 'Free Sheet-music Library'. See the following pages of the Bach Cantatas Website:
Cantatas BWV 1-50: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores.htm
Cantatas BWV 51-100: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores2.htm
Cantatas BWV 101-150: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores3.htm
Cantatas BWV 151-199: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores4.htm

All the files are derived from public domain music in editions that are in the public domain. So you may freely copy, print, distribute the files. To view or print the PDF (Adobe Portable Document Format) files, please use Adobe Acrobat Reader or Ghostscript. Note: DON'T download more than one file at the same time. DON'T use any multi-thread user agent such as FlashGet, NetAnts.

The pages of the links include also links to 'Examples from the Score', which were contributed by Thomas Braatz.

Yu also wrote that his Webserver doesn't have a fast connection to Internet. Therefore he gave me the option of mirroring his pages in the Bach Cantatas Website. I shall consider doing so, if I have enough requests. These are big files, and for this matter I shall need much more space on the server than what I have at the moment (and the Bach Cantatas Website is already quite a large Website!).

---------------------------------------------------------
Sent on May 3, 2002:

Scores of Complete Bach Works in BGA Edition on 3-CD ROM’s

The question where scores of Bach’s works can be bought has been asked many times in the BCML and the BRML, and I also received many personal inquiries regarding this issue.

Now, at last, there is a satisfactory answer. All the scores of Bach’s works are available on 3 CD-ROM’s. Couple of weeks ago I received the following message:

“For the first time in the history of the Bach-Society/ Leipzig the "Ancient Edition of the Works by Bach" appeared in a professional, digitalized form on three CD-ROM’s with its complete texts, musical notes, contents and facsimiles of about 16,800 pages.

Bach-Gesamtausgabe
Johann Sebastian Bach's Werke
Herausgegeben von der Bach-Gesellschaft zu Leipzig
46 Jahrgänge und Supplement
Leipzig 1851-1899
(Ausgabe Breitkopf & Härtel)
digitalized by F. Steltner © 2001/2002

They can be read by PC and Macintosh with the enclosed programme Adobe® Acrobat Reader 5.0 in German or English and can be printed in all sizes needed with very good results...

The edition costs € 180.- plus delivery charges (to be sent within 3 working days)

Info/choice of pages/samples and order:

www.bachwerke.de
fredsteltner@t-online.de
Telephone: 0581 43022”

I ordered the CD’s at once and within a week they were in my mailbox. They fulfill the expectations.

The liner notes read as follows:
“For the first time in the history of the Bach Society with these volumes the complete ‘Ancient Publications by Bach’ appear in a digitalized form.

The edition of Leipzig Municipal Library has suffered a lot in the course of time since 1851. Bindings have been broken and the condition of the papehas become ruptured and cannot be used for everyday's practical work anymore. Even more: due to water spots the diagonals have been moved out of place.

Because of the stenotype printing of those times you cannot be offered completely white and clear pages. Nevertheless ink or writing spots and those due to dampness were removed carefully. Compared to today's techniques they seem to lessen the quality, but as they are old documents this should not be a disadvantage! The advantage of digitalization is that an important document was saved for the user, more so as these monumental folios are not allowed to be taken home anymore (like nearly all the books dated before 1900). The volumes are a digital copy of the edition by Peters, Leipzig, available in a bound form at Leipzig Municipal Library with more than 16.800 pages (section music, catalogue number D 17). Because of the size of the data the PDF-formation was chosen (300dpi) which can be realized by Internet as well as by PC or Mac ®. The edition for the computer with 75 dpi can at once be enlarged with very good results. It is important to know that the print was reduced from folio into legal. Nevertheless it can be changed into all enlargements or diminutions you ever like.

With the programme Adobe Reader version 5.0 ® all the data can be read by PC vice versa Mac ® quickly. This programme is added to the edition. Laser prints guarantee for best legibility. The index (see textbook) has got advantages, too: because of its clearness you can find items quickly on the CD's. The "Ancient Edition by Bach" have their own indices which can also be made use of for special items in particular.”

BTW, I do not have any commercial interest in this enterprise and I paid full price for my copy. The only deficiency is that this is the BGA (or BG) Edition and not the NBA Edition (see explanation in the following page of the Bach Cantatas Website:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Terms.htm )

It means that they include the complete and full scores of BWV 1-1080, including works, which due later research have been proved to being composed not by J.S. Bach. On the other hand, the latter additions to the BWV are missing. Anyhow, AFAIK, the NBA is not available in digitized form and it should be much more expansive.

Cantata Scores

Dave M. wrote (July 5, 2002):
Thought this might be of interest. Recently came across a company who publishes on CD-ROM the complete Sacred Cantatas of Bach. These are scanned PDF files and print out pretty nicely. Not like perfectly engraved music - closer to a Xerox copy, but still, it gets the job done if you are in need of a score. The price is right too - $24.95 (for 199 cantatas!). For more info, here's the website:

http://www.cdsheetmusic.com/

Aryeh Oron wrote (July 5, 2002):
[To Dave M.] The same (piano) scores are available, free of charge, through the Bach Cantatas Website. See:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexScores.htm

If you want to read about them, see:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Books/CD-CompleteCantatas.htm

Katia Tiara wrote (July 7, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Sadly I can't download those scores. First it takes a lot to display one (more time than one would expect with files of that size). Then when I save it after quite some time it mentions an I/O-error. After that I have to close the broswer window before I can return to the index of the scores (same when I open the score in a second window). Finally when I try to open one of the files I can't do so, although appearently, judging from the amount of data, they are complete. Any ideas or suggestions? This is the third day in a row I'm trying to get some of those scores. I'm used to work with Adobe BTW.

Larry Ford wrote (July 7, 2002):
[To Katia Tiara] I was able to successfully download the first Cantata (BWV001.pdf) and open it up in Acrobat Reader version 4.0. I won't even venture a guess as to what might be the problem, but it may be something with your system.

Bach manuscripts

Jim Morrison wrote (July 17, 2002):
I was just chatting over email with a friend of mine and he asked me which of Bach's works do we lack autograph manuscripts for and I couldn't (with a red-face he could see) name them for him. Is there a list of them somewhere on the internet or in some easily accessible reference book? I'm actually away from home now and have been for a few weeks and so can't look on my own shelves. I know some of the chamber works are problematic and some of the early organ works, but what else? Just how rare are scores written in Bach's hand? How many works have been passed down written out by others? And just why should this be? Where would Bach's own scores have gone? I've read that his sons are partly to blame for not saving work, but are they in fact mainly to blame? Did they simply throw away his works after he died, like so much scrap paper? Or did fires and floods take some of them as well? Or did perhaps Bach happen not to keep scores of his works? Was it common practice of the day not to preserve works of dead composers?

Thomas Braatz wrote (July 17, 2002):
Jim Morrison inquired:
< I was just chatting over email with a friend of mine and he asked me which of Bach's works do we lack autograph manuscripts for and I couldn't (with a red-face he could see) name them for him. Is there a list of them somewhere on the internet or in some easily accessible reference book? >
No, not that I am aware of. Information of this sort in contained in the KB of the NBA and it would take a lot of time to create such a list.

< I'm actually away from home now and have been for a few weeks and so can't look on my own shelves. I know some of the chamber works are problematic and some of the early organ works, but what else? >
Within the last few months I gave information on one of the Bach cantatas (I can't recall which one) for which not a single note or mark of articulation is in Bach's own handwriting. Yet, there is no doubt that this work is by Bach. There are numerous ways of determining this in addition to analyzing the work for its style.

< Just how rare are scores written in Bach's hand? >
Most of them are in libraries or archives and a few are in private hands.

< How many works have been passed down written out by others? And just why should this be? Where would Bach's own scores have gone? I've read that his sons are partly to blame for not saving work, but are they in fact mainly to blame? Did they simply throw away his works after he died, like so much scrap paper? Or did fires and floods take some of them as well? Or did perhaps Bach happen not to keep scores of his works? Was it common practice of the day not to preserve works of dead composers? >
Scores of original works in Bach's day were a valuable commodity. You can read about this in most Bach biographies where he spent nights copying out clandestinely works that his uncle had accumulated. There was great value attached to such music in handwritten form. W.F. Bach would extract an exorbitant price from anyone who would be allowed to take a peak at his father's cantata scores. I have reported on this subject earlier. C.P.E. Bach, also, was not always as careful as he should have been with his father's manuscripts, but W.F. Bach was definitely the worst offender in this regard.

Remember that Bach's style of music quickly fell out of favor with the general public, so the preservation of his manuscripts did not have such a high priority as it might have had beginning with the time of Mendelssohn who began collecting Bach's autograph scores wherever he could.

Juozas Rimas wrote (July 17, 2002):
< Thomas Braatz wrote: Within the last few months I gave information on one of the Bach cantatas (I can't recall which one) for which not a single note or mark of articulation is in Bach's own handwriting. Yet, there is no doubt that this work is by Bach. There are numerous ways of determining this in addition to analyzing thework
for its style. >
Incidentally, are there any online articles about determining authenticity?

As it leaves it me puzzled every time I see many Bach's works (or the ones attributed to him) with a simple marking "spurious", "doubtful" or even just "?" (like here in many places www.kunstderfuge.com/bachworks.htm )

If the reasearcher cannot even approximately tell the real author, maybe the judgement exclusively based on its style would be too bold?

Bart Hengeveld wrote (July 17, 2002):
< Jim Morrison wrote: I was just chatting over email with a friend of mine and he asked me which of Bach's works do we lack autograph manuscripts for and I [snip] >

The following links may be relevant to your question:

http://www.bachdigital.org/
http://www.sbb.spk-berlin.de/

Jim Morrison wrote (July 18, 2002):
Thanks for the help.

I just got back into town (and had quite a few discs from three separate orders from two countries waiting on me at the post office-hmmm, this CD buying thing may be getting out of control again) and have been able to look at some of my Bach books in the autograph issue and it turns out in the back of that incredibly useful and seems to be indispensable Oxford Companion to Bach there's sequential BWV list that includes among other things an indication if there is an autograph of the score along with its location. Looks like most of the vocal music survives in autograph and almost all in one place: the Berlin Staatsbibliotheck. Any idea how they acquired so much of Bach's autographs?

I was surprised to see how little of the organ works are in autograph.

Looks like there exist autographs of the Inventions, some of the French Suites, but none of the English Suites, both Books of the WK, KdF, and little else of the keyboard compositions. That surprised me. None of his first publication, the Six Partitas 825-830, or French Ouverture, the Italian Concerto, the Goldberg Variations, etc. Don't ask me why, but I thought that since he's had things like the Partitas and the Goldberg's published that he also would have saved the autographs as memorabilia.

I still don't understand at all what happened to Bach's scores. Was it common practice to throw away the manuscripts? Did they recycle the paper? Was space so short they couldn't keep them? Were there no music libraries to give them to? Were they destroyed by fire or flood or war? Did his sons simply toss them in the garbage after he died, or did Bach himself get rid of them? What was Bach's attitude towards his own scores? Did he save his own music? I don't have the Wolff bio with me to see if he has anything to say on the subject. Maybe there's something in there on the issue.

Seriously, I work in a library and issues of preservation and the disappearance of texts interests me. Can anyone direct me to a book or essay that talks about how Baroque composers felts about their musical scores and just what are the processes under which world class musical scores like those of Bach's are 'lost'? Who losses them? Where do they go? etc.

Thomas Braatz wrote (July 18, 2002):
Jim Morrison asked:
< Looks like most of the vocal music survives in autograph and almost all in one place: the Berlin Staatsbibliotheck. Any idea how they acquired so much of Bach's autographs? >
C.P.E. Bach lived and worked in Berlin for many years (at the court of King Frederick the Great.) At his father's death, CPE acquired many of the autograph scores, which he took along with him to Berlin. W.F. Bach, the eldest son of J.S.Bach, also spent the final years of his life in Berlin. Between both brothers almost all of Bach's autograph scores were distributed. A key institution involved in acquiring the manuscripts after the deaths of both brothers was the Berliner Singakademie with Carl Zelter, a composer and conductor of this organization, who spearheaded the endeavor to collect all available manuscripts by J. S. Bach. Zelter was the teacher of Mendelssohn, and thus this special interest in Bach's music (and the scores) was passed on directly to Mendelssohn, who gave his support to the performances of Bach's works and the establishment of the BGA, for which all the autograph scores would be necessary. Eventually most of the holdings of the Berliner Singakademie were !
passed over to the BB (Berliner Staatsbibliothek).

< I was surprised to see how little of the organ works are in autograph. >
In Wolff's recent Bach biography, p. 48, Wolff surmises that the fact that these early organ works were primarily in organ tablature form, a system of musical notation that was already going out of fashion in Bach's time, meant that there was little interest in preserving them. They could no longer be easily read and understood by the newer generation of organists that favored the current notational system.

< I still don't understand at all what happened to Bach's scores. Was it common practice to throw away the manuscripts? >
As Wolff explains on p. 45 - these handwritten scores were a valuable commodity and were treated as such (once again, the story about young J.S. copying by moonlight from his uncle's collection of compositions that were kept locked behind a grillwork doors through which J.S.'s small hands could reach in order to extract them. "Christoph was right to be enraged about the unauthorized copying and the potential loss of value that his collection suffered thereby." This is somewhat like owning a one-of-a-kind postage stamp which has great value, but when copies are available the collector's value of the stamp decreases considerably, because now many now can say that they possess the sought-for item.

< Did they recycle the paper? >
I believe that I have read somewhere recently that the story about the only existing copy of the Brandenburg Concerti was recovered after it had been used for wrapping up some fresh meat (a story I had read as a boy and used to believe) is a myth that was perpetuated for a long time without full knowledge of the facts. Almost every aspect of the history of the autograph score for the Brandenburgs is known and it is in reasonably good condition. The musical calligraphy is an outstanding effort by J.S.Bach. It eventually also came to the BB, where it is today.

< Was space so short they couldn't keep them? >
No, not for something considered as having great value.

< Were there no music libraries to give them to? >
Why should they be donated to a library if private collectors were offering more money in the form of ready cash?
Anna Magdalena did present her set of original performing parts to the St. Thomas School soon after Bach's death, but her sons would still occasionally perform some of the cantatas while they were still alive.

< Were they destroyed by fire or flood or war? >
Yes, just recently I discussed the provenance of a cantata where the original score was lost/destroyed? during WW II. Perhaps, however, some soldier picked it up as a souvenir and it is resting somewhere in an attic. Who knows? But in cases like this, the BGA will have had access to this manuscript for its authoritative edition. The NBA can then rely more heavily on the results contained in the BGA.

< Did his sons simply toss them in the garbage after he died, or did Bach himself get rid of them? What was Bach's attitude towards his own scores? Did he save his own music? >
I think, as long as they were alive, both sons would have recognized the value of the scores, but W.F. was less judicious in selecting the individuals to whom he entrusted the scores, even if it was only to take a peek at them for a day or two.

During Bach's lifetime, it was customary for cantors of churches (particularly those related to Bach in some way) to exchange their own compositions. J.S. Bach performed these cantatas by others in his church while his works would be performed elsewhere. It is conceivable that a few cantatas may have been lost in this way.

In the case of some of J.S. Bach's own printed works, he may not have felt a strong compulsion to maintain the orscore, since he was personally engaged in proofing what the engraver's presented to him for correction. With each subsequent correction, the original score became less and less important to maintain, particularly after the actual printing when the whole world had access to his most recently corrected versions.

Jim Morrison wrote (July 18, 2002):
[To Thomas Braatz] Thomas! Great post, thanks. You're shed quite a lot of light on
this issue for me.

One thing I'm still in the dark about though is how Bach's autographs move from being valuable commodities that are too special to be donated to a preservation institution and are in fact leant, displayed, and sold for money to so quickly becoming virtually worthless pieces of paper that their owners don't bother to maintain or keep track of.

I understand that it's hard to figure out just what makes people lose items and definitive answers will be hard to come up. I guess I'm really just expressing some amazmemt over how many autographs we don't have.

Thanks again,

PS: Just put on what seems like it's going to be another fantastic Robert Hill Bach disc: The harpsichord music of the Young J. S. Bach II (not bach the second! but set two of the two issue sets) which contains the still unheard and rarely recorded BWV 990 which seems to a set of variations on a Saraband (sound familiar?) along with 912a, a different version of the Toccata in D Major.

Continue on Part 2

Scores of Bach Cantatas: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Bach’s Manuscripts

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Last update: ýAugust 7, 2004 ý22:55:12