Cantata BWV 33 - Discussions

Cantata BWV 33
Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ
Discussions

Discussions in the Week of August 25, 2002

Aryeh Oron wrote (August 25, 2002):
BWV 33 - Introduction

The subject of this week’s discussion (August 25, 2002), according to Klaus Langrock’s suggested list, is the Chorale Cantata BWV 33 ‘Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ’ (Alone towards you, Lord Jesus Christ). The background below is quoted from the liner notes to the Vanguard LP (unmentioned writer, early 1970’s):

Background

Cantata BWV 33, for the thirteenth Sunday after Trinity, was composed, according to the latest research, in 1724, Bach's second year in Leipzig. Patterned in Bach's more customary style of "chorale cantatas" in Leipzig, it closes with the chorale in most simple, four-part harmonisation, and opens with a magnificent, big scale chorale fantasia. In this fantasia of 153 measures the chorus presents the hymn in nine statements, homophonic or freely imitative. They are embedded in the orchestral flow which states its opening theme as a four-voice canon, and continuous contrapuntally throughout. After a bass recitative, one of Bach's most hauntingly beautiful arias follows, with its interplay between muted violin and alto voice over pizzicato strings. Then the tenor recitative introduces a spacious "fantasia" movement as a counterpart to the opening, but with a florid tenor-bass duet taking the place of the chorus. Again there is a canonic texture, and there are also engaging illustrative touches. In the closing chorale, each of the four parts in the chorus is given its own orchestral colouring.

Recordings

The details of the recordings of this cantata can be found in the following page of the Bach Cantatas Website: Cantata BWV 33 - Recordings

As you can see this cantata has only 4 complete recordings. Three of them are from the regular sources (Rilling [4], Leonhardt [2], and Leusink [5]). The 4^th comes from the excellent partial cycle recorded by Cantate label during the 1960’s. This cycle, which was loosely connected with the editorial work of the NBA, was conducted by a variety of German Kantor-conductors, such as Gönnenwein, Ehmann, Kahlhöfer and others. You can see the details of the recordings of this cycle in the following page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Cantate.htm
Alas, most of the recordings in this cycle are out of print, and most of them have never been issued in CD form. The conductor of BWV 33 is Heinz Heintze [1], who made only one LP of Bach Cantatas. The other cantata on this LP is BWV 95, which has already been discussed in the BCML

Additional Information

In the page of recordings mentioned above you can also find links to:
The original German text (at Walter F. Bischof Website); English translations by Francis Browne and Z. Philip Ambrose; French translation. Hebrew translation will come later;
Score (Vocal & Piano version);
Commentary: in English by Simon Crouch and in Spanish by Julio Sánchez Reyes:

So, you are well equipped to start doing your ‘homework’ and listen to the cantata. I have already started to do mine. This morning I had a long drive and I used the opportunity to listen to all four recordings in my car. I have to admit that these are not the ideal surroundings for concentrate listening (driving, stops, noises, phone calls, etc.) but it was good for first impression. After this first round I do already have one favourite recording. But I shall better keep it to myself meanwhile. I have learnt that with repeated listening, of which I am never tired, I might draw conclusions, which might be different from the first impression that I had. Through the process of comparative listening to various recordings, HIP and non-HIP, old and new, large forces and OVPP, the picture of the ‘ideal’ performance is being built gradually in my head. This, the ‘ideal’ performance, is the one against which I compare the others, the ‘real’ recordings of the cantata under discussion.

I hope to see many of you participating in the discussion.

Roland Wörner wrote (August 28, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] I read your introduction to BWV 33 not until today. In the list of the recordings I miss the wonderful recording by Karl Richter [3] with the aria for alto, overwhealming sung by Julia Hamari. KR also did this cantata very often in his Cantata Evenings at S. Mark's in Munich. It was one of his very favorite cantatas and I think, one can hear this in the recording (DGA 1977, Box Sunday after Trinity I).

Aryeh Oron wrote (August 29, 2002):
[To Roland Wörner] [3] Thanks for reminding me about Richter's recording of Cantata BWV 33. I do not know how has this one slipped out. Nevertheless, I updated the relevant page and added Ricther's recording to my listening list.
See: Cantata BWV 33 - Recordings

I intend to send my impression of this recording as well as the 4 others by the end of this week. Until then I shall be happy to see other's opinion, short as they might be.

Philippe Bareille wrote (August 29, 2002):
[To Aryeh Oron] Please Aryeh do not shorten you comments. They are always illuminating.

Bach creative genius defies imagination. With the exception of the recitatives each cantata is different. So it is a pity that probably approx 100 of those were lost for ever. Fortunately we are still left with 200 to enjoy.

The BWV 33 is another deeply satisfying cantata, especially for the comforting alto aria (how frightened trembling steps I seek Him/but Jesus hears my supplication...). I have listened to Leonhardt [2] who captures marvellously the spirit of this music. I think the sweet and consoling atmosphere of this cantata suits him particularly well. The Hannover choir is not as eloquent as its counterpart from Tolz but brings out the clarity and the dancing element of the scoring very convincingly. The young René Jacobs purity of tone is remarkable and I particularly like the way Leonhardt emphasises the rhythmic element of the score in this aria. The duo is slightly marred by the tenor voice but he sings with great fervour and Egmond is as moving as usual.

I listened a few years ago to Rilling [4] (I borrowed the CD from a public library). I didn't like that version at the time partly because I felt that the modern instruments often fail to bring out the transparency, the tone and the contrasts that this music requires. However, it would be dishonest to pass a definite judgement without listening to it again.

Dick Wursten wrote (August 30, 2002):
BWV 33 - two opinions and one textual remark

Just to broaden the discussion I introduce someone else's opinion on BWV 33. It is the comment of a Dutch author, Maarten t Hart, Bach-lover from his early childhood, almost litterally 'surviving' on listening to Bach, esp. the cantatas. He contests the statement of Murray Young who said that the aria is very beautiful but perhaps too long because of its slow tempo and da capo.

"With that I totally disagree. In my opinion this alto-aria is one of the most beautiful, a splendid example of what Vestdijk (=other Dutch author, who commented in writing on all the cantatas of Bach, before recordings existed, i.e. by reading/playing/humming/singing the score at the piano I think.. and then imagining...) called Bach’s 'non-sentimental patience' (Dutch = 'onmeewarig geduld'; difficult to translate). For me the tempo of this aria can never be slow enough (Richter [3] - thank God - takes it very slow). The simple fact that it just goes on an on, for 10 minutes, makes this one of the most grandiose pieces of music Bach ever composed. By the way this aria is strongly related wthe divinely beautiful soprano-aria from cantata BWV105."
[Maarten 't Hart, JSB, p 113]

I myself am also very much impressed by this cantata as a whole. After the solid statement of the opening chorus and the sober recitative of the Bass, the alto-aria indeed takes you away... What a sound! The singing of the violin 'en sourdine', the background pizzicato and then the conitnuous walking with 'wankenden Schritten'... Enchanting is the word for me. Personally I find 7'38 minutes a perfect length (Leusink version [5]). The duet also stole my heart... The Leusink version works again as an appetizer: I hardly can't wait to hear other performances/interpretations, because there must be more in it...

One textual remark: A. Dürr states that the both the hymn and the free paraphrasing of the two midde verses of the hymn to become mvts 2 - 5 in the cantata... have hardly any link with the text of the readings of that sunday: the good Samaritan (gospel) and a few words of st. Paul about the interdependence and interaction of the jewish law and the promise of God to Abraham (Galatians 3: 15-22).

My consideration is, that the textual links (on the level of identical words and phrases) may well be not very numerous, but that I the thematical and substantial link is very tight.

The parable of the good samaritan is part of a discussion about: How should I fullfill the commandments of the law of Moses... In the reading of Galatians Paul introduces Jesus as the inheritor and fullfiller of Abraham’s promise, and at the same time the law becomes a temporarily instrument to make people realize that they are trespassers of it and need a 'mediator'.

I predict (retro-jectively) that the sermon of that sunday followed the typical Lutheran lines of thought being that of the opposition of 'Gesetz und Evangelium' (law and gospel) in which the 'Verheissung' (Promise) of Gods redemption was strongly preached as being available to all listeners through faith in Jesus Christ alone (Allein zu Dir).

We should also not forget that the parable of the good samaritan was mostly not understood as an ethical imperative, but as a preaching of the love of Christ (he is the 'Good Samaritan' par excellence)for the 'lost man' who lay there beaten up at the road of his life and who was not helped by the passing priest and levite (= in Lutheran imagery: the 'old testament law' does not rescue, save a soul in agony). It even might be allegorized completely. I would not be surprised.

Now read again the hymn and the cantatatext and the substantial links will become evident.

Charles Francis wrote (August 31, 2002):
[To Dick Wursten] Maarten 't Hart's "Bach und ich" (written in German) can be bought for some 10 Euro, a price which includes a Ton Koopman CD! For reviews and on-line purchase see: Amazon.com

Marie Jensen wrote (August 31, 2002):
Allein zu dir Herr Jesus Christ mein Hoffnung steht auf Erden.....(opening):

Waiting, hoping , being patient, being disappointed, waiting, hoping again for something, haven't we all tried that? BUT... here it is a dance to hope for Christ. And that is good!

Wie furchtsam wankten meine Schritten:
indeed they do (did) - tiptoe-, but underneath are the safe, firm steps of Christ. It becomes a wonderful consolating alto aria - not one second to long....

And it all ends in a very beautiful duet prayer, reminding me of... is it a trio from the 1^st Brandenburg?

I have forgotten what a great cantata this was. I just rediscovered it, totally wrapped up, listening to Leusink [5], without paying any attention to technical details at all…Text and music is a whole. How could I forget cantata BWV 33 for such a long time?

Aryeh Oron wrote (August 31, 2002):
The Recordings

Last week I have been listening to 5 complete recordings of the Cantata:

[1] Hans Heintze (1967)
[2] Gustav Leonhardt (1974)
[3] Karl Richter (1976-1977)
[4] Helmuth Rilling (1979)
[5] Pieter Jan Leusink (1999)

Background & Review

The background below is taken from the following sources:
Alec Robertson: ‘The Church Cantatas of J.S. Bach’ (1972), and
W. Murray Young: ‘The Cantatas of J.S. Bach – An Analytical Guide’ (1989).
The English translation is by Francis Browne, a member of the BCML.

Only the paragraphs related to the three odd movements are quoted, because these are the movements I chose to review this time.

Mvt. 1 Chorale
Oboe I/II, Violino I/II, Viola, Continuo
Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ
(Alone towards you, Lord Jesus Christ)
Robertson: In this chorus each line of the nine in the hymn is separated from the next by ritornellos developed from the orchestral introduction. The chorale melody, sung by the sopranos, and the lower parts are always treated quite simply. It fall to the orchestra, therefore, to express the happiness that confidence in the Saviour brings, whatever troubles befall, and this it does in the uprushing scales for the oboes, followed by the violins, in the introduction. The pendant phrases with repeated notes, two or more bars at a time, are a distinctive and combative feature in the instrumental parts almost throughout. Whittaker points out that the treatment of the fifth line, ‘Von Anbeginn ist nichts erkorn’ (From the very beginning nothing has been decreed), gives the clue to these assertive repeated notes - which here also enter the lower voice parts – and was Bach’s way of hitting at the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination.
Young: A joy-motif predominates in this chorale fantasia, while the instruments play in a step-rhythm, symbolic of steadfast faith, both the orchestral introduction and in the ritornelli after each line sung by the choir of their prayer to Christ. The fifth line affirms the Lutheran doctrine of free-will against predestination.

[1] Heintze’s rendition of the opening chorus is the slowest of all five. Yet, although it is also the oldest, it has internal clarity of voices and instruments and kind of tenderness, which makes it almost irresistible with every repeated hearing. No joy can be found here, only deep despair and agony.
[2] The opening chorus under Leonhardt’s baton has apparently more vividness and joy than Heintze’s. The flow is disturbed by the usual fragmentation, which usually characterises this cycle. I do not feel that any feeling is conveyed through this rendition.
[3] Richter supplies in the opening chorus much more vigour and boldness than Leonhardt does. You fill the outburst of joy from all the participants, in this large-scale rendition. The gloomy side of this chorus is not revealed here.
[4] One can easily find many similarities between the performance of the opening chorus by Richter and Rilling. The latter is a little bit slower, but still emphasises the jolly side of this movement. It is also more colourful and has more legato.
[5] Leusink gives the lighter and most transparent performance of the opening chorus. It does not have the sadness of Heintze, neither has it the boldness of Richter and Rilling. But I still find it very attractive.

Mvt. 3 Aria for Alto
Violino I con sordino, Violino II, Viola, Continuo
Wie furchtsam wankten meine Schritte
(How fearfully were faltering my footsteps)
Robertson: A superb aria, most imaginatively scored. The arpeggios in the continuo are marked organ staccato, string bass pizzicato, violin II and viola pizzicato, above which the muted first violin plays the poignant melody, with a motif that prevails throughout in one form or another. The burden osin, continually reiterated, still lies heavy on the soul, but hope is not dimmed and leads to a moving expression of humble gratitude at the line ‘Doch hilft mir Jesu Trostwort wieder, / Daß er für mich genung getan.’ (but Jesus' word of comfort reassures me / that he has done enough for me.)
Young: Bach depicts the sinner’s wavering steps in the beginning of this text by a step-motif for pizzicato strings above the continuo accompaniment with organ. This march-like melody continues throughout the aria, even when the latter part of the text states that Christ’s comforting words have done enough for her. It is an aria of great beauty, but seems, perhaps, too long with its slow tempo and da capo.

[1] Bornemann (with Heintze) holds the listener attention along the long aria with her true contralto voice, her the outmost expressiveness and heart-rending plea. The sensitivity and the warm with which her singing is surrounded by the first violin and the pizzicato strings are a lesson of tasteful accompaniment. Very rarely the burden of sin is expressed so convincingly. When it is finished you fill indeed tired.
[2] Leonhardt knew what he was doing when he chose Jacobs for this aria. His timbre of voice and moving singing suits this aria like a glove. Yet, even he, is not up to the level of a real woman contralto like Bornemann or Hamari in terms of expressiveness. The consequence is that the listener might lose interest along the way.
[3] Hamari’s singing is a lesson in taste and gentle expression. Her voice is less deep than Bornemann’s, but no less warm and her singing is very moving. Her vibrato is also less prominent than the former. She gets full and supportive accompaniment from Richter.
[4] Watts definitely has taste and intelligence, yet at this stage of her career her voice is somewhat behind its prime. She holds the listener’s attention with the power of her expression, and not with the beauty of voice. I still find it fascinating to listen to. The accompaniment she is getting from Rilling is a little bit too strong for me and lacks some sensitivity.
[5] The shortcomings of Buwalda (with Leusink) have been expressed many times in the weekly cantata discussions. I would not like to repeat them here. What is a problematic singer? This is singer that through his rendition you afraid that the thin layer of ice, on which he is walking, might be broken under his feet almost every second. This is a singer that when he sings you wish he were somebody else, somebody like Andreas Scholl or Matthew White.

Mvt. 5 Aria (Duet) for Tenor & Bass
Oboe I/II, Continuo
Gott, der du die Liebe heißt
(God, you who are called love)
Robertson: The essential sentence is, ‘Gib, daß ich aus reinem Triebe / Als mich selbst den Nächsten liebe;’ (Grant that from a pure impulse / I may love my neighbour as myself.). The last section, which prays that if enemies disturb his rest Go will send help, has some lovely phrases on ‘Ruh’ (peace, rest), a word Bach always dwells on tenderly.
Young: Two oboes support their prayer to God that He will fill their spirits with love for their neighbour, as in the case of the good Samaritan. If enemies should disturb their good intentions, they pray that God will help them to achieve their works in love. They sing each pair of lines in imitation but conclude them in unison. Bach’s setting is unusually artful, but the overall result is not too noteworthy, as the parts do not blend very well.

[1] Young rightfully mentioned why it is so difficult to deliver a successful rendition of the duet. Yet, if the first recording was the only one we heard we would not know what he is talking about. The match between the voices of the tenor Jelden and the bass Kunz (with Heintze) is so splendid that is easy to follow each vocal line and to enjoy the blending of their voices. There is a tension between the singing and the accompaniment that seems to play in different rhythm. I have not heard this tension in any of the other recording of the duet.
[2] The team of Altena and Egmond (with Leonhardt) is not a good one. Firstly, the match between the voices is not pleasant to hear. Secondly the level of expressiveness in this performance is low. Thirdly, They fail to hold the listener’s attention. The playing of the oboes in this duet is better than the singing, but the whole package is not held tight. Somewhere in the course of this performance I had the impression that it is breaking into pieces.
[3] A singer of the higher level controls his technique both physically and intellectually so masterly that he is free to express whatever his soul guides him to do. With Richter we have not only one singer of the highest calibre, but two. And these two have also many years of participating in the same performances. The result is a dreamy duet, which eliminates any doubt regarding Bach’s art. You feel as you are looking at a couple of singers who indeed listen to each other. There is a drama there and there is expression. With repeated hearings I found myself wishing that the two would save some of their expression and give a more restrained singing.
[4] The duet of Rilling is not satisfactory. Firstly, it is performed so fast, that the relaxation, which is needed for a good performance of the duet, is simply missing. The singers seem to have difficulties to follow the progress of the movement with this breakneck tempo. Secondly, the match between their voices is not good.
[5] Schoch and Ramselaar (with Leusink) are relatively a competent pair. The match between the voices is good, the singers are well balanced, and therefore it is easy to follow them. The tempo is also fine and the accompaniment is exemplary. In this surroundings Schoch sounds better than when he is given a full aria to himself.

Conclusion

Personal preferences:
Chorus (Mvt. 1): Heintze [1], Richter [3], Rilling [4], Leusink [5], Leonhardt [2]
Aria for Alto (Mvt. 3): Bornemann/Heintze [1] = Hamari/Richter [3], Jacobs/Leonhardt [2], Watts/Rilling [4], Buwalda/Leusink [5]
Duet for Tenor & Bass (Mvt. 5): Jelden & Kunz/Heintze [1] = Schreier & DFD/Richter [3], Schoch & Ramselaar/Leusink [5], Altena & Egmond/Leonhardt [2], Lang & Huttenlocher/Rilling [4]

A recording to take away: HEINTZE [1]!

As always, I would like to hear other opinions, regarding the above mentioned performances, or other recordings.

Thomas Braatz wrote (September 1, 2002):
BWV 33 - Provenance:

See: Cantata BWV 33 - Provenance

Commentaries: [Schweitzer, Smend, Dürr, Daniel R. Meladmed (in an article on the choral mvts.)]

See: Cantata BWV 33 – Commentary

The recordings:

This week I listened to 4 recordings of BWV 33, two of which were non-HIP and the other two HIP: Richter (1976-77) [3]; Rilling (1979) [4]; and Leonhardt (1974) [2]; Leusink (1999) [5]

The HIP recordings are, as usual, a half-tone lower in pitch than the non-HIP recordings.

Somehow, once again, I was unato give a complete report on everything that I heard. I have seen Aryeh’s preferences which agree fully with mine. I regret not having been able to the hear the rare Heintze recording [1]. My discussion on the Mvt. 1 recordings follows below. Just a few comments on aspects that stood out in my mind regarding the other mvts.: Hamari’s performance of the aria is excellent in the expressive warmth that she radiates. The contrast between the weight of sins and the hope that faith brings is beautifully presented along with a very sensitive accompaniment that is extremely effective. I noticed that Hamari swoops to a high note on occasion. While this is acceptable practice in opera, such a mannerism is frowned upon in a Bach sacred aria. I just happen to read about this in Agricola’s book on singing where he points out how important it is for a singer to practice leaps or jumps upward and be able to land right on the note. Jacobs’ [2] stentorian, trumpet-like voice seems quite out of place in an aria of this type because he is unable to vary the dynamics of his voice sufficiently in order to sing the words expressively. When he leaps upward, he often hits the higher note with a vengeance. This, too, Agricola criticizes as a trait of a voice not properly trained and under complete control of the singer. Jacobs has intonation problems as well. Watts [4] has lost vocal control as a result of a long career in singing and Buwalda [5] has a ‘Fistelstimme’ which in German does not only mean a falsetto-type voice, but also describes the thin, reedy quality which is often unpleasant to listen to. Regarding the duet, Schreier and Fischer-Dieskau [3] have a perfect blend on their parallel sixths and thirds, but when the text has words like, “kräftig” (powerful), Dieskau overdoes the punchiness that he gives this word. This is an example of overkill on Dieskau’s part. Dieskau, generally, for all his virtues, has his moments when he unpredictably bellows forth and becomes a destroyer of a musical line because he is overly intent on bringing out the maximum amount of expression possible. In such instances, when he is engaged in acting out a text more than he would have to, he is ruled more by his mind than his heart and musical ear.

Mvt. 1:

[2] Leonhardt:
The Leonhardt recording exemplifies many of the characteristics that are typical of the Teldec HIP Bach cantata series:
1) The oboists are unable or unwilling to control the sound of their instruments sufficiently to avoid the feeling of insecurity that they project. If you listen to the 1^st mvt. Of BWV 32 at the beginning of the same CD, you will get an idea of how bad this sound can get. If Bach had to rely on oboists such as this, he would certainly have discontinued composing oboe parts for them in his sacred music. The vibratos of these oboists are shaky and their intonation rather poor at times. Perhaps Dürr’s description of the sound of modern oboes (above) applies more to these oboists than to modern players who are often quite excellent because they possess a higher level of musicality. The argument that Harnoncourt & Leonhardt’s oboists might offer, that these are period instruments, after all, and that Bach’s students probably could not play them any better, does not ‘hold any water’ for me. We have evidence of better sounding oboes in other HIP recordings. Such evidence refutes their arguments as well.
2) The squeaky, scratchy sound of the violins prevails. There is a harsh quality that they produce, a sound quality which is aggravated by Harnoncourt’s false assumption that violins in Bach’s time had to sound this way because of the shorter bow and the gut strings, and because the accents in the music at that time were much stronger and the phrases very much shorter. Where Bach marked a few quarter notes with dots, Leonhardt decides to make these notes extremely abrupt and loud, much louder than they should be, because here they attract too much attention to themselves.
3) In the bc, the 16th notes sound muffled with heavily accented quarter notes creating a thud-like sound. The cello ‘bites’ so hard into such notes that the neighboring strings begin to sound as well. This is the ‘playing on wood’ technique that some contemporary HIP groups favor. Such violent playing is uncalled for here. The wonderful, 16th-note, descending passages are not as clear as they should be. What ever happened to complete transparency promised by HIP here?
4) Certainly the choir is extremely important for this mvt. , but what happens is that the first entrance of the choir is quite tentative. Not a very auspicious beginning! There is no conviction expressed here, nor is the choir secure in the notes they are supposed to sing. The lower voices are muffled and weak, so weak that they become almost completely non-existent in ms. 99 to 102. Generally, the inner parts are difficult to discern.
5) When Bach does indicate dynamics (as he does very carefully in the alto aria, where he marks short sections as ‘piano’ or ‘forte’), these are often disregarded by HIP conductors. The prevailing trend among the latter is to abandon ‘tier’-dynamics in favor of extended crescendi and decrescendi which have always been a mainstay of late romantic performance practice. Go figure!

[5] Leusink:
1) Here the oboe sound is much better controlled, sometimes even too much so as they begin to sound bland and lack character. But this is a definite improvement over Leonhardt’s oboists.
2) The violins, although thin in sound and not always playing together as a unit, have a less scratchy sound and do not hit the strong accents as hard as Leonhardt’s violins do.
3) The bc is muffled and very thick and heavy. This is a general characteristic of the entire series. The bassoonist’s playing style is dull and uninteresting. The descending 16th-note passages lack character.
4) The choir sound is better than Leonhardt’s with the notes in all the parts being heard more clearly, albeit with the caveat that now the listener is faced with a lack of unity, of a coherent sound, because individual voices hold sway from time to time as they reach for high notes which are then much louder and because their unique vocal sound, raspiness, etc. becomes apparent.
5) Of the two HIP recordings, this is the better one.

[3] Richter:
Despite the fact that modern oboes are being used, they seem retreat very much into the background when the choir enters. Perhaps this should not seem unusual given the size and vocal power of the choir, and the larger string orchestra.
The strings play in a variety of ways: staccato (on the 16^th-note passages), portato, and legato. This is a reasonable blend of these articulation techniques that comes as a welcome relief after the Leonhardt’s performance.
The bc is excellently executed with a light staccato in the cellos, or even a pizzicato string bass coupled with a excitingly played bassoon. It’s not every day that one gets to hear a bassoon played this way in a Bach cantata.
Certainly the highlight here and the key element to the success of this mvt. lies in the exuberant conviction with which this choir sings. With this type of singing, the listener’s ears will really perk up. It is almost impossible not to get caught up in the excitement created by their commitment to sing these words ‘from the soul.’
In the beginning Richter seems to be pushing the tempo a bit as he tries to keep his large forces from slowing down. This tug-of-war is soon over and what we get is one of the truly great introductory cantata mvts well performed. It is not easy to find a recording performed with such fervor and dedication.
Yes, as a proponent of Bach performed in the Romantic tradition Richter also has crescendi, decrescendo, and ritardandi.

[4] Rilling:
The balance with the oboes is better here than with Rilling. This is probably due to the lesser number of players and singers.
With a tempo a half minute slower than Richter, Rilling is able to indulge in more legato playing. The 16th-note passages in the violins are not as detached as Richter’s.
The bc is less distinct compared to Richter, this despite the fact that Rilling treats the bc similarly. The 16^th-note figures and passages are less sprightly and lively than Richter’s.
I was particularly disturbed by the audacity of one of the sopranos (Rilling should have fired her on the spot, but she keeps cropping up relentlessly in this series and single-handedly brings good performances down to a lower level) who, with her completely uncontrolled vibrato, becomes a veritable Queen of the Night as she angrily sings the opening line of the chorale melody. Such angry determination is not a substitute for the solid strength evidenced in the Richter recording. Despite the use of trained voices who have difficulty controlling their vibratos, there are sections here that are musically more in balance here and have greater clarity (I can actually hear all the parts clearly) than in any of the other recordings, viz. the difficult passage in ms. 99-102.
Rilling’s version does not have the driving power that Richter has. In part this may be due to the slower tempo that Rilling takes: 5:03 compared to Richter’s 4:30. [Leonhardt came in at 4:50 and Leusink at 4:48.]

BWV 33

Christian Panse wrote (September 5, 2003):
And now back to Bach (at least I hope so). In eight days, I'll sing BWV 33 (Mvt. 2 and Mvt. 5), whoopee!

Bradley Lehman wrote (September 5, 2003):
[To Christian Panse] A good piece. Good luck with the performance! Is this for a church service or a concert?

Discussions in the Week of August 13, 2006

Peter Smaill wrote (August 12, 2006):
Introduction to BWV 33, "Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ"

Week of August 13, 2006

Cantata BWV 33, “ Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ”

1^st performance: 3 September, 1724 - Leipzig
Second Annual Cantata Cycle, 1723-24 (Jahrgang II)

Previous Discussion: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV33-D.htm
Cantata Main Page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV33.htm

In contemplating “Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ,” we skip to the 13^th Sunday in Trinity; the Cantata for the twelfth Sunday is presumed lost. BWV 33 has in my experience been neglected save for the instantly appealing
Alto aria, Mvt. 3, “Wie furchtsam wankten meine schritten”, which was recorded, for example, separately by the distinguished Irish alto Bernadette Greevy in 1980. In the last discussions, only four recordings were extant of the whole; since then, Koopman [7] and Suzuki [8] have come to the piece. It is however a work of consistently high quality and the relative neglect suggest that BCW participants may have quite a number of angles to explore which have been untouched.

The literary structure consists of the assertion of faith in Jesus, a relapse from Mvt. 2 to Mvt. 5 into sinfulness, wavering, and entreaties for faith and love; concluding with a return to confidence in the doxology of the
final verse of the eponymous Chorale of Konrad Hubert of 1540. Not for the first time the Chorale has been utterly neglected (“simply harmonised, etc”) by nearly all commentators despite its pivotal message, honour to the triune God, here and in eternity. As often with Bach, the final word, “Ewigkeit” is emphasised, in this case with a tierce de Picardy and with a preceding rising tenor line in imitation of the ascending figure at the opening of the chorale, but a tone higher and the note values accentuating the approach to the cadence.

There is a delicious modulation in the penultimate line (F natural in the alto), a passing exposed octave in ST, two later incidents of octaves on E in the upper parts, and five successive fourths in the SA parts at one point. The resultant somewhat strange harmonies emphasise the archaic nature of the haunting melody. The whole is a rendering of a modal (Aeolian) chorale in which frequent use of contrary motion in the parts, also a feature of Mvt. 1, creates a particularly satisfying conclusion, a rapturous, even mystical, sense of finality. Suzuki [8] alone in his liner notes (by Klaus Hofmann) spots the quality of this chorale and the delicacy of the orchestration in the closing bars.

Of theological interest is the stark refutation of the Calvinist doctrine of predestination in Mvt. 1, a chorus of electrifying energy and invention (Suzuki's [8] reveals this texture as expected much more than Richter). The
Lutheran expression noted by Whittaker and Robertson is, anglice, “From the beginning is nothing ordained”.

Whittaker says that Bach emphasises the doctrinal point by hammering out repeated notes. But, if the Wolff thesis is correct - that it is conrector Andreas Stübel at work on nearly all the libretti of the second cycle- then we have an issue here. What about the pro-Calvinist doctrines of BWV 107, “Was willst du dich betrüben”:

“If it is to be, no man can stay this” (BWV 107/5)
“But what God would not have
No man can carry through”
Not to mention BWV 93 discussed earlier on this point:
“God, who knows the elect” (BWV 93/3)
“After rain, he gives sunshine
And appoints to each his goal” (BWV 93/5)

We can but speculate that (?) Stübel’s texts for the 5^th and 7^th Sundays in Trinity caused a row amongst the clergy and worshippers, almost certainly including members of the theological faculty of Leipzig University. The text in BWV 33 is so starkly at odds with the previous texts that it amounts to a recantation. “A man of solid theological background, if somewhat nonconformist views” is Wolff’s take on Stübel. Or inconsistent views?

Quotations from selected Commentaries

Robertson
(Mvt. 1) The chorale melody, sung by the sopranos and the lower parts [is] always treated quite simply. So it falls to the orchestra, therefore, to express the happiness that confidence in the Saviour brings, whatever troubles
befall, and this it does in the uprushing scales for the oboes, followed by the violins, in the introduction.

Whittaker
The alto aria (Mvt. 3) is not only one of the loveliest of the many beautiful numbers that Bach wrote for what was evidently his favourite voice, but it is another remarkable example of economy of material….the effect of the sorrowful sostenuto melodies against the pizzicato lower parts is one of matchless beauty.

Nicholas Anderson (in Boyd)
The work as a whole is best understood as both a contemplation of God’s love for mankind and an exhortation to the Christian believer to love his fellow human beings accordingly. Both the autograph score, once owned by Mendelssohn and the original parts have survived and parts.
The second aria (Mvt. 5) is a duet; partly canonic…its text is concerned with both divine love and neighbourly love, and thus converges with the parable of the good Samaritan. The dance-like rhythm and the serenity of a melody which initially recalls the first Trio in the last movement of Brandenburg Concerto No 1 introduces to the Cantata, for the first time, a spirit of sustained optimism.

Dürr
(Mvt. 5) In the duet we might believe that Bach had allowed himself to be inspired by the soprano aria from the previous ’s cantata, BWV 77/3. In both cases the subject is our love of God, the obbligato instruments are two oboes, and the theme is characterised by parallel sixths and thirds, which in the present case, since it is a duet, are present in the voice parts too. The impression of tender intimacy holds true in both cases.
Generally speaking, there are grounds for the assumption that the listener of Bach’s day was more inclined to associate oboe tone with inspired singing than we are today: the tendency nowadays is to assign the instrument a more coquettish, pert character. A distinctive feature of this movement is that the melody of the oboes is so similar to that of the voices that the movement might be rewritten without great difficulty as a vocal quartet [for SATB].

Suzuki (Hofmann) [8]
In the final chorale (Mvt. 6:) Bach has skilfully harmonised Paul Hofhaimer’s beautiful melody, and, in the process, lent particular emphasis to the words “dem Vater aller Güte….der uns allzeit behüte” (‘the father of all things…..who constantly preserves us’) – which had in any case been stressed by the melody .He also underlines the words “In der Ewigkeit” (‘through all eternity’) by means of especially songful writing in the accompaniment.

Outstanding Questions

Until coming across the Suzuki liner quote [8], it felt that an entirely subjective affection for the chorale had developed in the course of writing this introduction. Robertson, Whittaker, Dürr, Boyd, liner notes to Richter,
Harnoncourt – nothing to say about it. Perhaps it is not that special after all; or maybe “blind spots” arise in the appreciation of Bach where the reviewers follow sheep-like in ignoring the subtleties of the final Chorales (BWV 10 was another case in point).

Perhaps also there is a theologian amongst us able to reconcile the Calvinist and Lutheran doctrines exposed in close proximity in the second cycle, or maybe a better thesis is possible as to what might have happened between the 5/6th Sundays in Trinity and the 13^th.

Are there any ideas as to why the cantatas for the 6^th and 12^th Sundays after Trinity is missing (so is the 4th, but that coincided with the Visitation, hence BWV 10, ”Mein Seel erhebt den Herren”) ?

I look forward to the reactions of contributors to the exploration of this Cantata especially via the new recordings, and wish all who hear this work entire for the first time much enjoyment; for it is there to be had in the musical ingenuity, literary structure and, finally, the closing affekt.

=================================================================

Additional Resources

Libretto:

Andreas Stübel (per Wolff, “Johann Sebastian Bach: The Learned Musician”, p.278)

Chorale: “Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ”
Text: Konrad Hubert, Nuremberg, 1540
Chorale Text: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Texts/Chorale111-Eng3.htm
Melody: (?) Paul Hofhaimer
Chorale Melody: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/CM/Allein-zu-dir.htm

Text:
See: http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/cantatas/33.html
English Translation: http://www.uvm.edu/~classics/faculty/bach/BWV33.html
Other translations: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV33.htm

Scoring:

Choir: SATB
Instruments: 2 Ob, 2 Vn, Va, Org, Cont

Liturgical Comments:

For the 13^th Sunday in Trinity
Other Cantatas written for this Sunday:
BWV 77 “Du sollst Gott, deinen Herren, lieben” Leipzig, 1723
BWV 164 “Ihr, die ihr euch Christo nennet” Leipzig, 1725

Texts of Readings:
Epistle: Galatians III 15-22; Gospel: Luke X. 23-27
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Read/Trinity13.htm

Piano Vocal Score: (free PDF download)
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV33.htm

Recordings:
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV33.htm

Music (free streaming download):
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Mus/BWV33-Mus.htm

Commentaries:
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=42:4186~T1

Performances of Bach Cantatas:
See: http://www..bach-cantatas.com/Concert-2006.htm

Order of Discussion (2006)
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Order-2006.htm

Douglas Cowling wrote (August 12, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< Cantata BWV 33, "Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ"
(Mvt. 1) The chorale melody, sung by the sopranos and the lower parts [is] always treated quite simply. So it falls to the orchestra, therefore, to express the happiness that confidence in the Saviour brings, whatever troubles befall, and this it does in the uprushing scales for the oboes, followed by the violins, in the introduction.
The alto aria (Mvt. 3) is not only one of the loveliest of the many beautiful numbers that Bach wrote for what was evidently his favourite voice, but it is another remarkable example of economy of materialŠ.the effect of the sorrowful sostenuto melodies against the pizzicato lower parts is one of matchless beauty. >
Once again, it is a joy to hear a superb cantata which I have never encountered before.

The opening chorus is fascinating because the orchestra is assertively in A minor while much of the chorale appears in the relative major of C Major.

The pizzicato bass depicting faltering footsteps is wonderful. We should start a list of symbolic pizzicato effects in the cantatas: e.g. The knocking at the door in BWV 61, "Nun Komm Der Heiden Heiland"

I don't have a full score: are the strings playing "con sordini" in the alto aria or is that the usual engineering false balances for Baroque music?

Thomas Braatz wrote (August 12, 2006):
Douglas Cowling wrote:
>>I don't have a full score: are the strings playing "con sordini" in the alto aria or is that the usual engineering false balances for Baroque music?<<
Bach personally wrote "col surdino" after the word "Aria" at the beginning of this mvt. on the Violino Primo part only.

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 14, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< Cantata BWV 33, <Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ>
In the last discussions, only four recordings were extant of the whole; since then, Koopman [7] and Suzuki [8] have come to the piece. >
Thanks to Peter for this especially stimulating introduction! I believe there was some confusion in the first round of discussion, and there were actually five recordings at that time (I have four, without Rilling [4]), and now seven.

< It is however a work of consistently high quality and the relative neglect suggest that BCW participants may have quite a number of angles to explore which have been untouched. >
I hope to use a good part of the coming week trying to do exactly that, but a brief early post to be responsive. Impressions from a quick listen:

(1) Leonhardt [2] is exquisite. No better example of why he should not be conflated with Hrnoncourt, and why the entire H&L set should be deconstructed to evaluation of each individual cantata performance, and enjoyed (or not) that way.

(2) Heintze [1] is not to be missed, if you have any way to access it. Even from my monaural LP, it is the A+ performance, in a superb group. This was recorded in September, 1962. The subtlety suggests that the entire history of Bach cantata interpretation and historically informed performance is due for a thorough review. The guys who made their reputations at it (see NYTimes Period Performance article, recently referenced) did not necessarily do the first work, from out of nowhere? Sheer speculation on my part.

(3) Leusink [5] and Richter [3] suffer only by comparison with outstanding alternatives. What an abundance of riches. The final touch, the pocket score with Leonhardt [2] (Brown Box LP) is NBA, which appears to have started with BWV 32. No wonder the later boxes are never seen.

< Are there any ideas as to why the cantatas for the 6^th and 12^th Sundays after Trinity is missing >
We had some recent discussion re Trinity 6, which text was available in 1724, but not set. It ultimately became BWV 9. Discussion was probably while you were in the South of France (see what you missed!) I expect you are on to something with the radical theology issues, as well. Later.

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 14, 2006):
Sunday NY Times article

Ed Myskowski wrote:
<< with pianists emulating the sound of the harpsichord in Bach,
At which point I thought of what Brad Lehman might have to say, gave the rest a scan, and said good-night. >>
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
< Sorry, I don't think about Brad Lehmann when I read such articles. >
Neither do I, but the idea of a pianist trying to emulate a harpsichord struck me as the kind of statement that Brad might jump on. Since he didn't, I will. Exactly how does a pianist emulate the sound of a harpsichord?

The article was a worthwhile summary, without once mentioning HIP, or even historically informed, thanks for the link (and original reference from Doug Cowling?).

With reference to BWV 33, I would suggest that Hans Heintze [1] deserves mention as a pioneer of historically correct performance principles, however informed (or not).

Thomas Braatz wrote (August 14, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
>>The final touch, the pocket score with Leonhardt [2] (Brown Box LP) is NBA, which appears to have started
with BWV 32.<<
As your sentence seems to imply: "The NBA started with BWV 32" [the fact is that the NBA began with the
Advent cantatas BWV 61, BWV 36, BWV 62 and BWV 132]. Perhaps you meant that the Leonhardt Brown Box LP 'appears to have started with BWV 32'?

Not many of the cantatas had been issued by the NBA when the Leonhardt cantatas were recorded and issued.
Did Leonhardt choose only from among those cantatas for which an NBA score existed?

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 14, 2006):
[To Thomas Braatz] Perhaps you can help with the answer. I have the first nine volumes of Brown Box LPs, through BWV 34. In vol. 9, I noticed that the score indicates NBA I/21, c. 1958, for BWV 33. I checked BWV 32, NBA I/5, c. 1974. These are the two conducted by Leonhardt. BWV 31 and BWV 34 are conducted by Harnoncourt, no source for the score indicated for BWV 31, but BWV 34 indicates NBA I/13, c. 1959. From this bit of evidence, it does not appear a choice by Leonhardt.

Incidentally, I am not at all familiar with NBA, I rely on you. The dates and volume numbers look a bit suspect, but that is what is printed on the pocket score.

I recall reading a note in recent months (I can recover the reference, if it is important), that there was a change to NBA scores about this time in the recording of the H&L series. Perhaps I misread it, or it was misstated, and what was meant was that NBA scores were used, and included with the LP's, when available. From what I have, it looks like this began with BWV 32, in the midst of vol. 9.

To tell the truth, I had forgotten the reference, until I got the recording and score out to listen to BWV 33. Now that we are discussing it, I am interested in the details. What were the scores used by H&L, and included with the LPs? I'll bet there are people on list who have the whole set! Speak up.

Thomas Braatz wrote (August 14, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
>>I have the first nine volumes of Brown Box LPs,through BWV 34. In vol. 9, I noticed that the score indicates NBA I/21, c. 1958, for BWV 33. I checked BWV 32, NBA I/5, c.1974. These are the two conducted by Leonhardt. BWV 31 and BWV 34 are conducted by Harnoncourt, no source for the score indicated for BWV 31, but BWV 34 indicates NBA I/13, c. 1959. From this bit of evidence, it does not appear a choice by Leonhardt.<<
The NBA published BWV 21 in 1981, BWV 31 in 1985, BWV 32 in 1975, BWV 33 in 1958 and BWV 34 in 1959.

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 15, 2006):
[To Thomas Braatz] Thanks for the help. I am continuing on-list in the hope that someone who has more of the LP set with scores may be able to help out. I have checked the scores for H&L vols. 1 to 8 (BWV 1 to BWV 30), none are indicated as NBA. This is consistent with my recollection of a reference that said H&L started using NBA scores about vol. 9 (specifically BWV 32, it appears). The reference is not what I hoped it might be, the 1985 Penguin Record Guide, which says only that H&L began using NBA scores as they were published, without further detail.

BWV 1 to BWV 30 were recorded from 1971 to 1974. Is it possible that no NBA scores were available for this sequence, in that time period? I apologize for the imposition. I can see NBA volume references (but not dates) in the BWV thematic index, and I am unable to discern any chronologic relation in the NBA volume numbers.

I realize this is a picky detail. But, perhaps a bit of useful discographic information not otherwise available. And certainly not the most picky post ever on BCML. Not by a longshot.

Thomas Braatz wrote (August 15, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
>>I can see NBA volume references (but not dates) in the BWV thematic index, and I am unable to discern any chronologic relation in the NBA volume numbers.<<
See: http://www.baerenreiter.com/html/completeedi/gabach.htm#serie1
[Make certain to get the entire URL on one line]

Raymond Joly wrote (August 15, 2006):
[To Ed Myskowski] I would suggest inquiring whether the copyright situation was the same for the old and the new Bach-Ausgaben.

Aryeh Oron wrote (August 15, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
"I realize this is a picky detail. But, perhaps a bit of useful discographic information not otherwise available. And certainly not the most picky post ever on BCML. Not by a longshot."
The info of the publication years of the NBA volumes (vocal works only) is available at the BCW.
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexRef-NBA.htm

Continue of this part of the discussion, see: Scores of Bach's Vocal Works - Part 3 [General Topics]

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 17, 2006):
BWV 33, Tempos and HiP [was: Danger]

Chris Kern wrote:
< HiP conductors >
Your points re tempos are well stated, and I will return to them in just a few words. Still a bit of a problem with the lower case i in HIP taking emphasis away from informed. On the other hand, it does look quieter (and less War Dept.) than HIP. hOW about if you be HiP and I'll be hIP, hENC?

< We have no idea what Bach's tempos were like -- the obituary says he took them briskly. That doesn't necessarily mean a Koopman or Gardiner level of speed, but it can't be ruled out either. >
I am struggling to find a concise, and not merely subjective, way to state my disappointment with Suzuki's quick tempo for the opening chorus, Mvt. 1. My first disappointment with Suzuki. I am trying to find if I am wrong? Suzuki [8] brings this in at 4:19, compared to an average of about five minutes for everyone else, except Heintze [1] at 6:30.

The Heintze [1] time is not published on the Cantate LP, I first thought I must have read my watch incorrectly, so I checked again. I am confident I got it right. Interestingly, it does not sound at all dragging or slow compared to the five minute average. Just very nice articulation of the individual notes in the instrumental ritornello sections setting off the chorale vocal lines, which also do not sound too slow.

The approximate five minute average does not sound bad, in comparison, I listened to Leonhardt [2] first and loved it. I preferred the Heintze performance [1], but for overall balance and vocal quality rather than any specific impression of difference in tempo. I listened to these, as well as well as Richter [3] and Leusink [5] a few times, before I had the opportunity to hear Suzuki [8]. I immediately reacted with <this is too fast>, and began comparing timings and tempos.

I am one of those loving listeners occasionally mentioned, so I am willing, anxious even, to be educated as to what subtleties I am missing. In the interim, I respond to the Aryeh mantra: if nothing else, post <I like this recording, because . . .> Or even simply, <I like this recording.>

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 17, 2006):
I previously wrote:
< these, as well as well as Richter [3] >
The astute (and hIP) will notice the chiastic structure.

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 17, 2006):
BWV 33, NBA

Thanks to everyone who provided information re NBA chronology. BCML is rather like a Christmas (or Feast of your choice) dinner: if you ask a question, you are very likely to get the answer. You are also very likely to have Aunt Milieu tell you . . . I will spare you the details. Family is family.

As it turns out, I had the necessary information in hand re H&L scores, but it was hard to recognize it without the on-line references. There is a message there, I am sure:
(1) Geezerhood approaches
(2) The internet is a wonderful resource.
(3) Some combination

The original reference I was remembering (and garbling a bit) is Daw, p. 173:

the Telefunken record series started by enclosing this edition [BG] within its packages but by volume 9 had begun to include NBA scores--some in unique reduction--in answer to critical protest: where the NBA has not yet covered subsequent music in the Telefunken project, various editions have been substituted.

Thanks to Peter Smaill for first mentioning this reference (Daw), popular, but with scholarly accuracy. Scholarly accuracy? Scholarly detail, at least. Peter or I will add Daw to the BCW bibliography.

Daw also acknowledges assistance from Telefunken as a general note, and indicates the score used for each H&L recording, but with a question mark (following a not so user friendly code, but it is all there). Bottom line, he suggests that NBA scores were used for performance, where available, for BWV 1 to BWV 30, even though BG pocket scores were included in the package. I won't bore you with all the numbers (unless you ask) but one bit of interesting trivia: the copyright date for the Telefunken production of BWV 32 (1974) is earlier than the publication date for the relevant NBA I.5 (1975). Possibly, the Telefunken pocket score was the first in print.

Read between the lines, this was the reason for protest. It is also consistent with the Penguin Record Guide comment I previously mentioned, that H&L used the NBA scores when available. After sorting all that out, I saw the note at the end of the Telefunken score, fine print, German only. No source indicated in the pocket scores for Vols. 1 to 8. The source for BWV 32 to BWV 34 is NBA. The source for BWV 34 is a published pocket score (Taschenpartitur). By implication, the Telefunken pocket scores for BWV 32 and BWV 33 were unique reductions, at the time.

As I have often said, they don't make them like that anymore. Geezer expression.

For anyone interested in H&L discographic details, Daw looks like the best reference, worth using for this reason alone. OOP, but the odd used copy may turn up (I found mine recently), or ask on-list. Peter or I will be happy to answer, If it is me, I will also tell you that you are talking with food in your mouth and slurping your beverage. Marx Bros. got nothing on us.

Chris Rowson wrote (August 18, 2006):
BWV 33, Tempos and HiP [was Danger]

Ed Myskowski wrote:
< I am struggling to find a concise, and not merely subjective, way to state my disappointment with Suzuki's [8] quick tempo for the opening chorus, Mvt. 1. My first disappointment with Suzuki. I am trying to find if I am wrong? >
I think subjectivity is fine -- you can't be "wrong" in your impression of a movement. If it's too fast for your taste, then I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Just to make what I'm saying clear, I'm definitely not saying that people shouldn't post their opinions or that only objective comments are good. But there's a big difference between someone posting his impression of a particular performance, and actually insulting the performers involved.

For instance, if you say "Suzuki's tempo in this movement is so fast that it's hard to hear everything, and it loses the reverent quality that other recordings have", I don't have any problem with that. But some posters prefer to say things like "Suzuki's attempt to cater to people with short attention spans leads him to speed through this movement" or "Suzuki has no concept of reverence at all, as evidenced by the ridiculous speed of this first movement" -- those are not just criticisms of the performance, they are insulting speculations as to the motives of the performers (and in the case of the first one, insulting not only the performers but the listeners who like the
performances).

Obviously I'm not a moderator or administrator so I can't tell people what to post and what not to post; I just wish people would exercise some restraint.

Bradley Lehman wrote (August 18, 2006):
BWV 33, NBA

< the copyright date for the Telefunken production of BWV 32 (1974) is earlier than the publication date for the relevant NBA I.5 (1975). Possibly, the Telefunken pocket score was the first in print. >
Possibly; but, one would also have to know when the Baerenreiter offprint or preprint of any given composition was in print, with score and/or parts, for purchase or rent. These (currently light-blue) paperback editions use the same musical text as the NBA's reading in the enshrined clothbound brown volumes.

Case in point: I've had the Baerenreiter/NBA score of BWV 1127 for almost a year already, in its blue paperback edition, but their web site doesn't have any advertised date when this composition might hit the streets in the hard brown edition: http://www.baerenreiter.com/html/completeedi/nbainhalt.htm

Perhaps an even better illustration of this time lag: I bought their blue edition #5181 of the "Neumeister" chorales when it was new, in 1985; and its brown edition didn't show up in print until 2003! Its Kritischer Bericht istill not yet available: http://www.baerenreiter.com/html/completeedi/gabach.htm

Thomas Braatz wrote (August 18, 2006):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
>>Perhaps an even better illustration of this time lag: I bought their blue edition #5181 of the "Neumeister" chorales when it was new, in 1985; and its brown edition didn't show up in print until 2003! Its Kritischer Bericht is still not yet available.<<
The NBA KB IV/9 was published in 2003 (Editor: Christoph Wolff)

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 19, 2006):
BWV 33 [was tempos...]

Thomas Braatz wrote:
< If Bach’s autograph score or original parts show
1 a note of a given value prescribed by Bach
does the performer have a right to change this note so that
a) its value changes drastically (a whole note becomes a quarter note or even less)?
b) it becomes inaudible to the audience but still appears in the ‘outline’ given by Bach? >
I have made a point to listen specifically to the five recordings I have (unusual for me), for the B rec, Mvt. 2:

Both Leonhardt [2] and Leusink [5] plunk an organ tone, and go silent. Certainly secco.

Hientze [1] and Richter [3] play what I would have to call figured bass (from recent discussions) on organ, with minimal embellishment of the written, extended, whole notes in score. Hientze is particularly wonderful, this recording is a must for reissue.

Suzuki [8] adds harpsichord, for the figuration. A lovely sound, but no noticeable improvement (perhaps not quite equal) to what Heintze [1] achieved 44 years ago with careful use of the available instruments, recording technology, and most important, information. What I mean by hIP.

Any reports on Koopman [7]?

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 21, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< Week of August 13, 2006 - Cantata BWV 33
It is however a work of consistently high quality and the relative neglect suggests that BCW participants may have quite a number of angles to explore which have been untouched. >
I find these challenging comments very useful and stimulating. I immediately started to look for an angle.

Many commentators have emphasized the alternation of ritornello sections with nine lines of chorale in Mvt. 1, but I did not see that anyone noted the extreme variation in duration of the ritornello sections.

A long aside: I had not seen Whittaker before, and decided I should look before reinventing the wheel. I had previously done a local library search for Whitaker (from an older BCW reference typo error. There are 14 returns for Whitaker, worth correcting?), with negative results. I did not pursue it intently, because the best nearby music library has open shelving, from where I use Robertson. Next time there, I looked adjacent, no Whitaker or Whittaker.

It is Murphy's Law, what can go wrong, will. Robertson is classified with Bach (LC ML), Whittaker, spelled correctly, of course, is classified with choral music (LC MT). Thanks to Peter for including the reference, and encouraging me to do another search.

With the material in hand: Whittaker, the NBA score (courtesy of H&L brown box), four additional recordings, numerous other commentary and liner notes, I would feel prepared to undertake an MA thesis, let alone an untouched angle. Whittaker includes detailed motivic examples and analysis of the ritornello elements in Mvt. 1, especially useful with the score in other hand. He notes how all the ritornello sections, and instrumental elements accompanying the chorale lines, are derived from motifs in the very first ritornello statement, with this
comment:

This introduction has has been analyzed at length because of the fascinating way in which one idea emerges from another, continuity being maintained yet with some fresh points in all sections after the first, and abundant material provided for the pages to follow. It is astonishing how powerful these small orchestral sound; texture is more vital than sheer weight.

In fact the opening, first ritornello section is 20 bars, the subsequent nine range from 5 to 24 bars. It is this variety which provides the architecture and forward momentum of the movement, in relation to the chorale text. As I said at the outset, I have not seen this mentioned. I presume that it is somewhere, and I would appreciate any references available. I initially intended to write a few paragraphs on this architecture, and on what a powerful movement it creates, perhaps the best so far (in Jahrgang II). But time dwindles, and Peter has already weighed in with the intensity of next weeks BWV 78/1. So I will defer, with intent to make comparitive comments on the two in the coming week.

Continue of discussion from: General Guide to approaching musical ideas [General Topics]

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 22, 2006):
BWV 33 [was general guide to approaching musical ideas]

Thomas Braatz wrote:
< Lest anyone might think that the long list of revisions (corrections and additions) in BWV 78 is due to some unusual circumstances, a look at a closely linked cantata BWV 33, just recently discussed on this list, reveals that it is in this regard very similar to BWV 78 in Bach's careful treatment of the parts: Bach changed or added things in 460 measures/bars spread out over all the parts. Some measures have two or three corrections in them which are not counted separately. >
A few thoughts in response to the post (above):

(1) Very refreshing to see the reference to current discussions, BWV 33 and BWV 78. These are already seeming like a pair for a number of reasons, more to come.

(2) The question of tempo seems to remain the ultimate, subjective decision which the performer must make, without specific guidance from Bach's scores. I have just looked at Durr for the first time today, and realized that he includes approximate duration of performance. For BWV 33, he suggests 27 mins. None of the currently available recordings come close to this, only the OOP Hientze. Does Durr take his figure from this recording, from some more generalized criteria, or other reasons? It would be nice to know.

I have already indicated that I prefer this timing as my first preference, so I am not being disagreeable (on this point, anyway). I believe it was Chris Benson who suggested that a bit of support for tempo preferences would be appropriate in almost all instances. I agree, and will try comply in the future, even if it is no more than to say I like this better than that. In the specific instance of BWV 33, I am afraid that is the case. The details of the opening chorus, BWV 33/1 are clearest to me with Hientze, but I cannot say that they are obscured, even at Suzukis pace. It gets a bit hard to tell. With repeated listening, the more you hear it, the faster it can go. Maybe that is part of the issue?

(3) I have also looked at Whittaker for the first time recently. I was struck by an anecdote in an Interlude, what amounts to a preface, to Vol. II (p. 2):

An amateur singer of my acquaintance, who knew her Bach well, sang to two German ladies with whom she was staying 'Mein glaubiges Herze' (My heart ever faithful) at the proper tempo -- Presto. There was a pause
of awkward silence at the end and then one of the ladies said reprovingly: 'We Germans always sing church music solemnly.'

There are a number of things here to think about, not least, how does Whittaker know the proper tempo is Presto? Actually, he does provide some relevant and worthwhile discussion, not necessarily conclusive.

(4) Not to take away from proper respect for the best edition of the scores, which I have supported at every opportunity. But it remains that the most critical issue after the note values themselves, tempo, is effectively undefined.

Thomas Braatz wrote (August 2, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
>>I have also looked at Whittaker for the first time recently. I was struck by an anecdote in an Interlude, what amounts to a preface, to Vol. II (p. 2): An amateur singer of my acquaintance, who knew her Bach well, sang to two German ladies with whom she was staying 'Mein glaubiges Herze' (My heart ever faithful) at the proper tempo -- Presto. There was a pause of awkward silence at the end and then one of the ladies said reprovingly: 'We Germans always sing church music solemnly.' There are a number of things here to think about, not least, how does Whittaker know the proper tempo is Presto? Actually, he does provide some relevant and worthwhile discussion, not necessarily conclusive.<<
The tempo problem with this aria, first as BWV 208/13 from 1712-3 with repeat performance in 1716, and its later revision, a rather thorough one in 1725 in BWV 68/2, is due to a change from an original 'C' (4/4) to a 'C' with vertical line (2/2) alla breve time signature. The "pia/piu Presto" designation is synonymous with the 2/2 (cut-time) tempo designation. When the copyists created the new parts for BWV 68/2 reading from the older existing parts, the 'C' (4/4) was changed to the cut-time, 2/2 time signature in all the parts, but only one part A 15 Violoncello piccolo has both the cut-time signature and the 'piu presto. Having both of these present is obviously redundant so the 'presto' is essentially meaningless even if it reflected in the score. The NBA score has a footnote explaining what is behind this odd tempo designation. Remember, if the soprano soloist were singing this from the original part, this tempo designation would be lacking - also true for the oboe, violin and continuo parts as well. All of this was probably due to a copyist's error, but it simply was not worth the effort to attempt to erase or cross out this error in BWV 68/2 ("Mein gläubiges Herze"). Of course, this does not mean that this aria should be sung like a dirge, nor should it be sung as fast as possible. A proper interpretation of the text should prevent both of these extremes from occurring during a performance.

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 23, 2006):
BWV 33 tempos [was War Department]

Chris Rowson wrote:
< When in a pub sitting next to someone with verbal diarrhoea one tends to filter out the boring bits. Alternatively I finish my beer, go and get the next round and hope that my seat is taken when I get back. >
And the beauty is, when you are socializing on line, you don't even need to leave your seat!

Thanks for responding to the timings, and converting to bpm. In this case (BWV 33) I happened to have the score and could have done it, I had forgotten your earlier post re timings vs bpm, and counting the measures..

I find the comments re Dresden and pace of life very relevant to tempo interpretations, hadn't thought about it before. I didn't check your arithmetic, but somehow you inspire confidence. Heintze [1] at 71 bpm is a natural heartbeat tempo. That is not the only reason he sounds so good, but perhaps one of them.

Chris Rowson wrote (August 22, 2006):

Ed Myskowski wrote:
< ... [Heintze] [1] at 71 bpm is a natural heartbeat tempo. That is not the only reason he sounds so good, but perhaps one of them. >
Another thing that occurs to me in the specific context of BWV 33/1 is that Quantz, if I understand correctly, would want the sixteenth-notes of the opening figure played ”inegal”. If you give them a good strong lilt at a tempo such as 71 bpm you get an amazing swing effect that I take great delight in :-)

I agree that 72 bpm or thereabouts is a reasonable heartbeat. Quantz actually says 80, which seems a bit fast to me, both for heart-rate and for music. In this connection, I always think of a CPE Bach quote I once read saying “they play the Allegro very fast in Potsdam”, although I can´t find the source to check my memory of this.

Ed Myskowski wrote (August 23, 2006):
Bradley Lehman wrote [Cantata BWV 78 - Discussions Part 3]:
< Bach's music is hard, even when neatly printed. <> there are still some figures missing from the figured bass, as to where naturals or flats should be carried through the bar or not. Context doesn't make it absolutely clear. >
A quick response to the two citations following. I would do this as an interlinear post, in an ideal world. In our less than ideal world (incompatible software, ornery hardware, various combinations, and worse):

(1) I spent the better part of 5 hours or so over a couple days, with Whittaker in one hand and NBA pocket score in the other (both neatly printed, very!) sorting out the wonderfully complex architecture of BWV 33/1. Time well spent, I expect to say more, but I could not resist the relevant opportunity.

(2) One luscious detail is the way Bach drapes the chorale entries across the bar line, at beginning and end of phrase in almost every instance (I don't have my notes in front of me, I believe he varies once or twice, just to keep us on our toes). I didn't notice at the level of detail of naturals and flats, but my beginner mind mind impression is that Bach is either surprising us, challenging his students, or just showing off some innovation (or all three). The phrase transcends the bar line.

If this is routine stuff, and I just happened to catch it for the first time, excuse my exuberance.

Cantata BWV 33: Complete Recordings | Recordings of Individual Movements | Discussions

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