Cantata BWV 91 - Discussions

Continue from Part 1

Discussions in the Week of November 26, 2006

Alain Bruguières wrote (November 26, 2006):
Introduction to BWV 91 "Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ"

Week of November 26, 2006
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Cantata BWV 91, Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ
Second Annual Cantata Cycle (Jahrgang II)
Christmas Day
1st performance: December 25, 1724 - Leipzig
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Bach Cantatas resources
Previous Discussions: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV91-D.htm
Main Cantata page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV91.htm

Text:
German http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/cantatas/91.html
English http://www.uvm.edu/~classics/faculty/bach/BWV91.html
French http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Texts/BWV91-Fre4.htm
Score Vocal & Piano: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV091-V&P.pdf
Recordings: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV91.htm#RC
Listen to Leusink recording [4] (free streaming download):
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Stream/BWV91-Leusink.ram
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Librettist : unknown
Reading:
EPISTLE Titus 2: 11-14: 'The healing Grace of God has appeared';
or Isaiah 9: 2-7: 'A Child is born onto us'.
GOSPEL Luke 2: 1-14: the Birth of Christ; the announcement to the shepherds; the angels' song of praise.

This is a chorale cantata, based upon the chorale of the same name Seven-verse hymn by Martin Luther.
For more details on this chorale melody see:
http://bach-cantatas.com/CM/Gelobet-seist-du.htm
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Structure
1. Choral SATB hn I,II timp ob I-III str bc
2. Recit. + chorale S bc
3. Aria T ob I-III bc
4. Recit. B str bc
5. Duetto SA vln I+II bc
6. Choral SATB hn I,II timp bc [+ww str]

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Comment (mostly based on Dürr).

In this Chorale cantata the unknown librettist uses the seven verses
of the hymn in the following way:
Mvt. 1 (Choral) = verse 1
Mvt. 2 (Recit. + chorale S) = verse 2 + free paraphrase
Mvt. 3 (Aria T) = free paraphrase of verses 3, 4
Mvt. 4 (Recit. B) = free paraphrase of verse 5
Mvt. 5 (Duetto SA) = free paraphrase of verse 6
Mvt. 6 (Choral) = verse 7.

The libretto, as the hymn, is based on the dual nature of Christ. It praises the Son of God for assuming the condition of man (Mvt. 1), in its most humble form, that of a baby (Mvt. 2). Since God accepts to be contained in a narrow crib, he cannot hate us, the children of his light (Mvt. 3). Christians must now open their hearts to His love, since He comes to lead them to His throne through this vale of tears (Mvt. 4): the humility of God's condition opens for us the gates of heaven (Mvt. 5). For all this we thank God and beg His mercy (Mvt. 6).

The first movement is a chorale fantasia in style concertante, similar to BWV 62/1. Two horns, drums and an extra oboe are added to the usual set of instruments by reason of the festive character of the occasion, resulting in an unusually large ensemble which allows Bach to form three separate groups of instruments of equivalent weight: horns, oboes and strings.

The instrumental ritornello uses many thematic elements, independent from the chorale melody, which are combined in various ways. They include a scale figure (a), a descending sequence of broken triads (b), a horn 'circulatio' (c).

Except for line 3, the chorale melody is present only in the Soprano cantus firmus; the three lower vocal parts use thematic material borrowed from the instrumental ritornello. The lines of the cantus firmus are accompanied by a texture which varies from line to line:
Line 1, by motive (a) in imitative style;
Line 2, by motive (b) in chordal style and motive (c) in free polyphonic style;
Line 3, by the choral line in imitative style, then chordal style on 'das ist wahr'.
Line 4, by motive (a) in imitative style;
Line 5, by a free polyphonic texture using motive (c).

Thus the central position of line 3 'Von einer Jungfrau, das ist warh' is highlighted by a special contrapuntal texture.

The overall effect is grandiose and joyful.

With the second movement, we suddenly shift to an intimate mood, as the soprano, only accompanied by the continuo, alternates recitative passages and simple chorale quotations, with an expressive ornamentation on the words 'is now found in a crib'. Each of the chorale lines is accompanied by quotations of the 1st line of the chorale melody in half-values.

The Tenor aria is accompanied by a delightful trio of oboes with strong rhythmic.

The subsequent Basso recitative develops into an arioso, which on the word 'Jammertal' (vale of tears) engages in a staggeringly chromatic passage suddenly resolved by the instrumental parts in a luminous C major cadence.

This somewhat unsettling recitative leads to the Soprano-Alto duetto. The majestuous opening ritornello in dotted rhythm, features a characteristic descending motion which may allude to Jesus' incarnation (Eric Chafe). Bach contrasts sharply the two aspects of the text (poverty, human nature vs salvation, heavenly tresures). In the main section of the Duetto, the opposition 'Armut' (poverty) - 'ewig Heil' (eternal salvation) is represented by an opposition: imitative suspensions/homophonic parallel voice leading; in the middle section, the opposition 'Sein Menschlich Wesen' (His human nature) / 'Den Engelsherrlichkeiten gleich' (Like the angels' splendours) is represented by an opposition: rising chromaticism / triadic melody and coloraturas.

The concluding chorale is not exactly the usual 4 part harmonized choral, since the horns have a relatively independent part. A final cadence on the words 'Kyrie eleis' recalls the circulatio motif (c) from the ritornello of the opening choral fantasia.

Eric Chafe notes that the tonal structure of this cantata is of the type descent/ascent, the turning point being the Duetto which 'explains the redemptive meaning of the incarnation'.

-------------------------------------------------------
A more personal comment.

The opening chorale is both impressive and joyful, without the contrasting characters some percieved in BWV 62 (no poignancy, no wilfulness - nor even Hitchcockian malignancy!). Yet, although I enjoy greatly 91/1, I must confess BWV 62/1 moves me more deeply. However the subsequent movements are highly successful, in particular the most unusual, almost unbelievable Basso recitative, and the beautiful duetto, with its rich structure and its remarkable ritornello, whose straighforwardness is rather untypical of Bach but very effective.

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A last word.

Well, I've been writing introductions for 10 weeks now. Time for me to leave the task of introducing the weekly discussions to Roar Myrheim.I wish I could have devoted more time to preparing those introductions, but in any case it has been a very positive experience for me. Iwish to thank Johann Sebastian Bach for writing especially wonderful cantatas between October 8^th and December 25^th, 1724 (as usual). Thank you all for the wealth of information and insight you never fail to bring into the discussions. During these 10 weeks, my attachement to the Bach Cantatas Mailing List has deepened considerably. A thousand thanks to Aryeh for allowing this place to exist.

Chris O'Loughlin wrote (November 26, 2006):
I don't mean to be too obsessional but I can't help noticing that things are getting a little out of sync with the liturgical year. We've just had BWV 62 which is for the first Sunday of Advent (next week) and now BWV 91 which is for the 1^st day of Christmas (still a month away).

I appreciate that
(1) liturgical years are rarely going to coincide exactly because of Easter and
(2) Bach wasn't only writing for Sundays

but does this mean the Bach Cantata website cycles are going to get increasingly out of sync with the actual current liturgical year ?

I only ask because it is rather pleasant to have cantatas that are approximately similar to the sentiment in the current year (hopeful in Advent, penitent up to Easter, joyful in Eastertide etc.).

Many thanks

Peter Smaill wrote (November 26, 2006):
[To Alain Bruguieres] Chafe is perceptive on the ascent/descent nature of the writing in the Christmas Day Cantata for 1724, BWV 91, including a rising passus duriusculus in the second part of the duet, BWV 91/5, a figure previously associated with redemption.

The final "Kyrie eleis" displays the horns storming upwards at just about the same time as the vocal score of the original setting of the Chorale BWV 91/6 has an incredible descent by the basses to a low C. Is this the lowest note Bach ever wrote for his choristers? Yet again he is marking out a significant date with an unorthodox vocal/structural effect.

So the contrasts we have embedded in text and music :

God v man
Universal God (Jesus) v tiny cradle
love v hate
poverty v abundance
mortal man v eternal
appointed time v eternity

BWV 91 illustrates the contrast by a Corelli- style step bass, versus the dotted unison violins, to which the admixture of the sinuous AT duet creates the backdrop for lovely word-painting on "Engel Chor". Likewise , the Tenor aria BWV 91/3 contrasts a triple oboe royal flourish with a tenor line which is, in Whittaker's words, "a dignified cradle song" (though not always interpreted thus).

Further contrast is achieved in the chromaticism and key shifts of the bass recitative, BWV 91/4,": Jammerthal", the vale of tears , being illustrated in consecutive fifths.

Thus Bach continues to push out his deployment of unusual musical devices, and yet the burghers of Leipzig on Christmas Day 1724 likely returned home contented to feast away with the surface effect of a glorious fantasia (on Luther's hymn )as the opening and closing effect, just as they desired.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 26, 2006):
Bach on radio [was Re:Introduction to BWV 91 "Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ"]

Chris O'Loughlin wrote:
< I don't mean to be too obsessional but I can't help noticing that things are getting a little out of sync with the liturgical year. We've just had BWV 62 which is for the first Sunday of Advent (next week) and now BWV 91 which is for the 1^st day of Christmas (still a month away). >
We are discussing the cantatas chronologically. The current approximate coincidence with the liturgical is just an extra bit of good fortune. Unless there was some really deep planning not readily apparent in the archives.


For a cantata performance in sync with the liturgical year go to WGBH-FM, 89.7, Boston MA, USA . or streaming around the world for those who can do it at: www.wgbh.org. Every Sunday morning at 8:00 local time (1:00 PM GMT, 1300 UT).

This is a good place to record and share a note to myself, so I don't forget. The tradition of a Sunday morning cantata on WGBH started over thirty years ago with the host then, Robert J. Lurtsema. When the first of the H&L brown boxes was a new release, he played them one at a time over four weeks, and then never looked back. Until this year, the cycles went in BWV order. Earlier this year, 2006, present host Brian McCreath began the new policy of playing a liturgically correct cantata, and using silent weeks to fill in other works which are not for a Sunday.

Today was BWV 26 in the Gardiner performance, which we discussed a few weeks ago. In 2006, this is the last of the Sundays after Trinity. Next week will be Advent 1, BWV 62, I am not sure which performance.

Peter Smaill wrote (November 26, 2006):
Advent

[To Chris O'Loughlin] Yes I was puzzled too by the jump from Advent 1 to Christmas Day, for the approximation in timing we have enjoyed, between the Jahrgang II sequence to the current Church Year, does help the appreciation of the cycle.

The main reason for the gap is that the Leipzig churches treated Advent as a penitential season, which it is/was, although few Christians if any now treat it as such today. So there were no cantatas in the churches after the first Sunday. In the Roman rite, by contrast, the third Sunday in Advent is the joyful break, known I recall as "Gaudete".

Even on the Lutheran first Sunday in Advent there is always have some reference to the weakness/sinfulness of man in the texts!

However,...there is a Cantata for the 4^th Sunday , BWV 132 of 1715 (i.e., when Bach was at Weimar). Usage varied in the Lutheran church , due to "Luther's dislike of an invariable observance" (Robertson).

Nevertheless, for the BCW, it has to be the case that Christmas comes early!

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 26, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< Chafe is perceptive on the ascent/descent nature of the writing in the Christmas Day Cantata for 1724, BWV 91, including a rising passus duriusculus in the second part of the duet, BWV 91/5, a figure previously associated with redemption. [...]
So the contrasts we have embedded in text and music :
God v man
Universal God (Jesus) v tiny cradle
love v hate
poverty v abundance
mortal man v eternal
appointed time v eternity >
First of all, let me say I find the entire post informative and enjoyable. I would consider most of the points speculation, or conjecture, supported by examples from the score. I do not consider those derogatory terms, I fear I have been badly misinterpreted on their use. For those who object, suggest some alternatives.

In some cases, where a musical figure coincides with words (for example, rising or falling) that is about as close to documentary evidence as we can get in the analysis of music.

Not to belabor the point, but I do not think an X inscribed in a parallelogram reaches that level of certainty, unless it is supported by some additional evidence that it had such a specific meaning for Bach. Repeated or exclusive use of the figure would be such additional evidence. Get to work, Grad Student!

Thank you all for the civilized discussion. And as to the uncivilized discussions? Well, not exactly thanks, but I can cope.

Raymond Joly wrote (November 26, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
"The main reason for the gap [between the first Sunday in Advent and Christmas in Bach's Leipzig cantatas] is that the Leipzig churches treated Advent as a penitential season, which it is/was, although few Christians if any now treat it as such today. So there were no cantatas in the churches after the first Sunday. In the Roman rite, by contrast, the third Sunday in Advent is the joyful break, known I recall as GAUDETE".
Indeed. In my childhood, the cathedral church in Rimouski was affluent enough to have the special vestments allowed, but not prescr, for the "dimanches roses", the pink Sundays. They replaced the penitential violet of Advent and Lent on two Sundays: GAUDETE (3^rd Advent) and LAETARE (4^th Lent).

"However,...there is a Cantata for the 4th Sunday , BWV 132 of 1715 (i.e., when Bach was at Weimar). Usage varied in the Lutheran church , due to "Luther's dislike of an invariable observance" (Robertson)".
Indeed. In Darmstadt, they had a cantata in the morning and one in the afternoon all through Advent.

Thomas Braatz wrote (November 27, 2006):
Use of 'speculation' [was Introduction to BWV 91 "Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ"]

Ed Myskowski wrote:
>>I would consider most of the points speculation, or conjecture, supported by examples from the score. I do not consider those derogatory terms, I fear I have been badly misinterpreted on their use. For those who object, suggest some alternatives.<<
As I have recently suggested, it would be best to drop the repeated emphasis on the word 'speculation' because it often connotes a negative, possibly even derogatory quality: OED - 'speculative' (related to speculate and speculation) "of the nature of, based upon, characterized by speculation or theory in contrast to practical or positive knowledge". So what we have here with 'speculation' is then something which is not positive knowledge.

As I pointed out previously, 'not positive knowledge' already begins at the moment when someone looks at an original, autograph score by Bach. From this point there is a sliding scale of speculation that leads to the wildest speculation of all: artistic freedom which views Bach's score only as a general outline upon which to speculate musically until the original Bach becomes almost unrecognizable or is so changed in character that it no longer comes close to what Bach may have had in mind. This is one good reason why this term should be very sparingly applied with due consideration by everyone in these Bach lists. To force Bach's music or facts about his life and performance practices into only two categories: 1) hard factual evidence and 2) everything else which is speculative overlooks the point that I have been making. It only serves to create hard feelings as much as our desire is always to have the best evidence before us. Unfortunately the original, positive meanings of 'speculate' or 'speculation' are now archaic and we must now live the semantic and emotional import more recently tied to these words. Certainly there will always be instances in these discussions where the judicious use of these words may be necessary, but also as certainly the overemphasis on them will not lead to better understanding and good will among the contributing members. Without a doubt, anyone has the right to ask for more specific evidence or documentation, most of which will be speculative to a lesser or greater degree. It should be left to the individual or the readers to decide whether this evidence, which most likely is already in a form of speculation (theories about word-painting, kernel ideas, musical figures, etc.) is valid, worthwhile and able to enhance one's understanding.

'Speculate', 'speculation', and 'speculative' can be used in discussions, but not repetitively. Certainly it should not become part of a 'logical' trap which attempts to place the results of such speculative thinking on a 'non-positive', lower level as opposed to the fiction of 'hard evidence'.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 27, 2006):
<>

Thomas Braatz wrote (November 27, 2006):
BWV 91/1 Score samples

Aryeh Oron has kindly placed on the BCW for your inspection a larger score sample consisting of four full-sized pages from the NBA score for BWV 91/1. Taken together as a unit, they represent the opening instrumental ritornello which until now Bach commentators have noted as containing material entirely independent of the chorale melody which follows it directly.

Ideally, these pages should be viewed side by side so that the continuity of the chorale melody incipit can be grasped immediately as a single unit.

This extended score sample is located at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV91-Sco.htm
(to examine any one of the 4 pages more closely, click again on that specific page)

I have not seen anywhere a photocopy of the opening page of the autograph score, but I can imagine that there is an overwhelming visual impression that one receives from viewing it directly (mostly having compressed almost all of the present 4 pages of the printed score into a complete view at a glance of the instrumental ritornello.) The arrangement of the various parts on the page remains the same as Bach's in this NBA reproduction.

Page 1

Here again Bach creates his musical structures from antithetical elements. There is nothing humdrum or pedestrian in his visual and aural approach used to prepare the listener for the meaning of the chorale text which follows the ritornello directly. The most obvious movement (mostly visually "Augenmusik" {"Eye music"} but also somewhat aurally) is found in the two choirs: oboes vs. upper strings. In each group there is a staggered entrance of the ascending scale motif (in two stages). With six entries repeating the same motif, the upward movement is strongly emphasized. The descending broken-chord figures follow in each instance directly.

If one sees the first 3 16ths of each entry as a pickup to the G which falls on the beat (assuming 4 instead of 2 beats to a measure/bar), then all 6 G's in the same position in both choirs of instruments seem to be pointing to the same 3 distinctly separated G's in the continuo and timpani parts. The latter can easily be seen as the opening 3 notes of the chorale incipit and form a unit (a single word of 3 syllables): "Ge-lo-bet", thus the 3 G's in each choir may be doing the same, but stretched out over only 2 measures/bars instead of 3.

Page 2

(In my hurry, I have incorrectly indicated the text which should read in the same places: "seist du" instead of "du, Herr". I will correct this as soon as possible.) This is, of course, the continuation of the chorale melody incipit as incorporated into the ritornello. Measure/bar 5, with its strong emphasis on the G major chord (not the continuo! which abruptly ends an ascending scalar passage (the final (7^th) statement of the opening motif), brings the first section [the comma is indicative of a break] of the chorale incipit to an intermediate close.

Page 3

In measure/bar 8, at the very top of the score, Bach has the corno 1 play a repeated 'C' which is the continuation of the incipit (visually still up in heaven) on "Je-" of "Jesu", but the next syllable '-su' is emphasized by a whole note in the high range of the violin 1 part (visually lower on the page). Meanwhile, beginning in m 9, the corno parts share in a fast repetition of the entire CM incipit which still has not run its course completely in the grand scheme of the ritornello until the high C is reached by the oboe 1 part in m 12 (on p. 4).

Page 4

The placement and emphasis on the two whole notes for '-su' and 'Christ' is quite obvious and their strong positions coming as they do at the very end of the ritornello, indicate that they were planned this way to complete the expanded intonation of the chorale incipit which covers the entire ritornello. Just how the circulatio figures in the horn parts along with the reference to "Christ" fit into this scheme, when they also occur elsewhere earlier in the same parts is a matter which still needs further investigation. There is still too much that remains unclear regarding the 'circulatio' despite Tim Smith's laudable efforts in advancing this subject/observation.

Neil Halliday wrote (November 28, 2006):
(I wrote this before Thomas sent his post; however most of it is complementary rather than repetitive).

At the start of the opening chorus Bach rather daringly repeats the same initial phrase at the same pitch on six different orchestral instruments in succession (at a distance of two beats), in the order oboe 1, 2, 3, violin 1, 2, and viola - continuing with the same phrase in the continuo two octaves below. This pattern occurs three times in the opening movement: the second time beginning immediately after the last note of the 1st phase of the cantus firmus (this time in the minor key, with the strings leading the way, without the phrase's appearance in the continuo) and thirdly immediately after the fifth (last) note of the last phrase of the cantus firmus, where the oboes lead the strings as at the beginning.

(These entries require careful listening to be heard; I was not aware of the latter entries until seeing them in the score. BTW, the BGA has 4/4, not cut C as the time signature).

Speculation: Bach uses this impressive arrangement of six identical entries to represent the incarnation, or to emphasize the arrival of Christ. (BTW, thanks to Thomas for his suggestion that the (rhythmic) diminution of the CM at the end of the ritornello in 62/1 represents the hastening of the event of Christ's arrival into the world. It seems so obvious I don't know why I didn't think of it myself!).

In the last section (with the five repeated G's in the c.f.) we have the choir ("Kyrie eleis") superimposed on the first five bars of the repeat of the opening ritornello, with the sopranos holding the last note over these entire five bars, and the ATB voices combining in the last three of these bars with the sopranos in a resplendent G major chord. This must be one of the few joyful settings of "Kyrie eleis" in music, obviously having the same meaning as "Hallelujah!" or similar, in this context.

Personal impression: This movement is happy, exuberant, and grandiose, without any of the elements of sombre majesty or wistfulness that may be perceived as diluting (or colouring) the joy in 62/1 (consequent in part on the strong minor key tonality in that work).

The drums play an important part in this movement (BWV 91/1). Rilling's drums [1] lack expression - more contrast between loud and soft (perhaps with appropriate crescendos, etc) is desirable, IMO. Something of this can be heard in the Wolfgang Kelber sample [5]. OTOH, Leusink's drums [4] are too reverberant and out of balance with the rest of the ensemble. Rilling's choral lines have commendable clarity. The 18th century horns (copies) sound coarse/inaccurate in most if not all the period ensembles, IMO.

The second movement has more character and interest if the soprano section of the choir sings the chorale line, contrasting with the more dramatic recitative interludes sung by the soloist. Rilling [1] and Koopman [5] take this approach (but there are problems with the continuo realisation in both cases).

Bach adopts a dotted rhythm for the following tenor aria, and the penultimate SA duet, which lends a dance-like, jaunty mood to both of them, enlivening the seriousness of the minor key tonalities; and both are attractive movements.

The duet, in the beginning, features minor 2^nd and major 7^th discords between the incipits of the SA lines, though in this context such `discords' are sweet indeed.

In the middle section, a "passus duriusculus" (section of ascending chromatic scale, set to the words "mortal nature"; thanks to Peter for the technical term) is heard four times in succession (and later repeated), passing from the alto to the soprano to the unison violins to the continuo, culminating in the section set to the text "(a place in) the angel's choir", with the violins consolingly/joyfully tripping their way through the lovely `circle of fifth's' harmony. After a short section similar in design to the beginning of the duet, the chromatic phrases reappear as before, this time in the order S,A, violins, continuo.

I would be surprised if many people think that Suzuki's tempo [8] in this movement - virtually `presto' - is appropriate. Leonhardt [2] and Rilling [1], with relaxed tempi, allow the music's loveliness to shine through.

The lovely harmony of the preceding accompanied bass recitative is concluded with the astonishing chromatism on "Jammertal" ("vale of sorrow"), which begins with a `shocking' modulation from A minor to A flat major, on the way to c minor and eventually to a luminous C major. Rilling's [1] strong, rich, strings are especially effective here.

------------

I'm not entirely happy with any of the recordings of the opening chorus; perhaps Kelber's [3] might be my first choice (from the samples). [I think part of the problem, perhaps, is those descending triads, especially on the strings, which can sound inflexible, to me at least. I have the same problem with recordings of the opening of another cantata with horns and drums, namely BWV 100. Even Beringer sounds rigid].

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 28, 2006):
[To Neil Halliday] Thank you for the post, always musically illuminating! Special thanks for your skill in finding soothing words in an occasionally (not always ?) disputatious crowd. I don't know if disputatious is an actual word in any version of English, but I like it, I'm keeping it!

Neil Halliday wrote:
< Speculation: Bach uses this impressive arrangement of six identical entries to represent the incarnation, or to emphasize the arrival of Christ. >
I noticed and appreciaterd the careful and accurate use of speculation. After that, you can hear whatever you want. All I have been suggesting.

< I would be surprised if many people think that Suzuki's tempo [8] in this movement ? virtually `presto' ? is appropriate. Leonhardt [2] and Rilling [1], with relaxed tempi, allow the music's loveliness to shine through. >
I could not agree more! (That somewhat awkward double negative construction, very familiar in USA, means I agree a lot). In fact, Leonhardt [2] in this particular movement, is my benchmark Bach cantata introduction. More to come.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 28, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< Aryeh Oron has kindly placed on the BCW for your inspection a larger score sample consisting of four full-sized pages from the NBA score for BWV 91/1. >
I have read carefully through the subsequent text, without noticing a single word regarding the circulatio figures indicated on Example 4:

(1) Why do you interpret these as circulatio figures?
(2) What is the speculative (or demonstrated from hard evidence) significance?

Out of respect for Neil Halliday's thoughtful post, I am giving a slide to the big colored arrows. In truth, I regret ever defending your right to post them, because they are starting to obscure the underlying notes. Nevertheless, for those of us without a score in hand, any score example is better than none at all. Thank you as always for posting them, try not to clutter them up too much.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 28, 2006):
I previously wrote, a few minutes agO:


There you go, that's what I get for trying to be clever while listening to Schwarzkopf. What I was thinking of was 

Which is also not a double negative. But if you put them together: Hmm, I was about to say two negatives make a positive, but there is still only one negative. Unless you count less.

Whatever it is, I am pretty sure it is not a circulatio.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 28, 2006):
Some quick thoughts, to get an early start on BWV 91

Alain Bruguières wrote:
< Yet, although I enjoy greatly BWV 91/1, I must confess BWV 62/1 moves me more deeply. >
Same here. I will try to find some more elegant ( or extensive) words for back-up.

Craig Smith, Emmanuel Music:
<In Bach's day Christmas was noas oppressively cheery as it is today.>

Some thoughts are precisely correct, and best presented with a frame, as it were.

Thanks for the sentiment Craig. Thanks for the introductions, Alain.

Merry X-mas to the X-motif thread. What? It's still Thanksgiving? I'm going out for some <frog soup>.

I first met Alain in my early weeks on the list, when he sent me a comment about <frog stoup>. Which I assumed was a minor typographic error for <frog soup>, so I started making jokes about my frog recipes. Naturally, Francophiles took offense.

We eventually figured out that <stoup> is a fine, if obscure, English word for <holy water basin> and <frog stoup> is a decent translation for the French phrase grenouille de benitier, an idiomatic expression for one who hangs around near the entrance to the church to curry favor with the authorities. A frog who lives in the holy water basin at the front of the church.

Most of that was done off list, but I think it is worth sharing, so that anyone who followed our recent tortuous path to X-motif can appreciate why we persisted, and why we were both shocked at the initial misunderstanding.

Many lessons there, most important for me: think twice before dipping your fingers in holy water basins, who knows what the frogs have been doing in it. The day is getting less oppressively cheery by the second. More
Hitchcockian.

Peter Smaill wrote (November 28, 2006):
[To Neil Halliday] The discussion on BWV 91 contains anumber of threads which are by no means novel speculations, but evidence of emerging patterns in the Cantatas where we are able to test the theses in prior scholarship. Let me try to explain:

BWV 91 as a Cantata of antithesis: this is Duerr's stance, to which one can add certain musical contrasts, such as the skipping figuration in the duet, set against two other stylistically removed lines, the walking bass and the intertwining vocal parts. Whether the musical antithises and verbal ones always connnect at the same time is not being suggested.

BWV's opening chorus/chorale and ritornello are related : this is Thomas' special insight for Jahrgang II and will indeed be a development of traditional scholarship, which states that only sometimes are ritornelli related to chorales, whereas if I understand aright Thomas Braatz is giving evidence that they nearly always are, albeit the motifs are more easily connected in some cases than others.

Circulatio: This thesis by Timothy A Smith has surfaced several times before in the BCW. Personally IMO some of his examples are doubtful and the similarity with the stock emphatic device of a turn is an open question. Where the text refers to Christ or the Cross, the coincidence is very likely significant.

Anfang und Ende: This is Eric Chafe's contribution: Bach particularly emphasis beginnings and endings. In BWV 91, the end of the chorale has the amazing bass low C followed by an ascent in the horns to the top of the register, emphasising Christ lowering himself and therby exalting man. Likewise the Christmas Cantata for 1723, BWV 40, uses one of the few chorales, "Erfreuet Euch", which ascend to the end. This is an example of Bach's consistency in word-painting devices.

Interestingly , the "Estomihi" cantata BWV 159 which precedes Lent, another juncture in the Church Year , has the oboe descend in three phrases right from the top of its register to the bottom , at "Welt, gute Nacht".

As we proceed through the sequence of cantatas the recurrence of word-painting devices, circulatio,dissonance, passus durisusculus, vocal and instrumental drops in register, connected ritornelli, not to mention statistically unusual gematric patterns, all are fit subjects for observation surely - but whether each of us is convinced by the evidence remains to be seen ! And even if we are : is it vital to the enjoyment of the music? Often not so, but the hermeneutics increase understanding of the "Learned Musician" aspect of J S Bach and of the extent to which his forms are premeditated as to allusions and appearance as well as aural effect.

Thomas Braatz wrote (November 28, 2006):
BWV 91/1 Time Signature [was: Introduction to BWV 91 "Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ"]

BWV 91/1 Time signature

The BGA has 4/4 indicated with a 'C' but the NBA has 2/4 indicated with a 'C' with a vertical line through it (cut-time - alla breve).

Who is right and why?

The BGA, with Wilhelm Rust as editor in 1875, being unable to view the autograph score, but having all the original parts available for examination, was faced with a real dilemma: about half of the parts, copied by the same copyist, had 'C' 4/4 and the other half 'cut-time or alla breve'. Here is the breakdown of the original parts regarding this time signature:

'C' 4/4 is marked in the Alto, Tenor, Bass, Corno 2, Oboe 1, Violin 1, Violin 2

'Cut-time, 2/4, alla breve' is marked in the Soprano, Corno 1, Timpani, Oboe 2, Oboe 3, Viola, Continuo

Since most of the parts were copied by the same copyist (the same copyist, for instance, copied the Corno 1 part with a 'cut-time' signature, but Corno 2 with the traditional 'C' (4/4)), there appears to be no reason why the time signatures should vacillate between between both forms. Also Bach, as part of his normal procedure, made additions/corrections in practically all of the parts, but never attempted to change the time signatures.

I remember reading in one of the NBA KBs (I do not remember which one, otherwise I could quote it directly) that there is sufficient evidence for asserting that during Bach's time (particularly the Leipzig years) these time signatures (as far as Bach was concerned) were in a state of flux. They were being used interchangeably, thus there really was not much difference between them, if any at all. This may come as a surprise to those who rigidly associate what usually amounts to a doubly fast tempo with one compared to the other. Perhaps upon reflection directed at evidence of this kind, those concerned with performance practices that Bach may have had will need to revise their theories regarding this particular feature of Bach's music.

Why did the NBA choose the 'alla breve' 'cut-time' signature over the regular 'C' 4/4?

It appears that based upon more recent research since 1875, the autograph score was completed after the parts had been copied. The parts still have the older versions of BWV 91/5,6 (these mvts. are printed out as an Anhang in the NBA), while the autograph score is a clean copy (not a working/composing score) including some of the changes not reflected in the parts. The NBA decided, according to their editorial policy (aus letzter Hand - the last, most recent version is best) to go with the 'cut-time' 2/4 alla breve' time signature.

Chris Rowson wrote (November 28, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
"Re: BWV 91/1 Time signature
The BGA has 4/4 indicated with a 'C' but the NBA has 2/4 indicated with a 'C' with a vertical line through it (cut-time - alla breve).
Who is right and why?
..."
Ummm, it�s not 2/4, it�s 2/2 ;-)

Thomas Braatz wrote (November 28, 2006):
Chris Rowson wrote:
>>it�s not 2/4, it�s 2/2<<
Thanks for pointing out this necessary correction.

Cut-time/alla breve, the 'C' with a vertical line is indeed 2/2 time.

Walther, in his 1732 music dictionary, still maintains the distinction between 'the simple C' and the 'cut-through C', indicating that the former usually means 'adagio' unless a marking like 'allegro' appears along with it. The 'cut-through C' indicates a fast and even beat.

Thomas Braatz wrote (November 29, 2006):
BWV 91 Additional Score Samples

Aryeh Oron has kindly placed two more examples (5 & 6) at the bottom of the already existing page at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV91-Sco.htm
(click on image again to enlarge)

These are mainly motifs as mentioned by other commentators or examples of possible 'passus duriusculus'

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 29, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< Just how the circulatio figures in the horn parts along with the referenceto "Christ" fit into this scheme, when they also occur elsewhere earlier in the same parts is a matter which still needs further investigation. There is still too much that remains unclear regarding the 'circulatio' despite Tim Smith's laudable efforts in advancing this subject/observation. >
I see there are more score samples forthcoming. I am going to look at them and consider the explanations. But I am still trying to get by Example 4, my questions, and the missing answers. The questions, in case they were overlooked the first time are:

(1) What, exactly are the circulatio figures in the phrases indicated?
(2) What is their significance.

I apologize for previously writing, in my haste . What I meant to say was 

We have spent a great deal of grueling time and discussion in the past week, trying to decide how to use a vague word, circulatio, more precisely, so as not to add to misunderstandings. My friendship with Alain nearly went into the stoup with the frogs, over this detail.

I can see a turn in the middle of each phrase, as the ascending seconds shift to descending seconds, and again as they shift back. Is that the circulatio, or is it the entire phrase, as your highlight would suggest. Or are we not sure yet?

I believe not sure yet is what your language suggests, but not what your markings on the score indicate.

Out of my ongoing and deep respect for Neil, I am continuing to ignore discussion of the arrows, small and brown, big and blue (just so you will be sure I looked). But if you would like to ask me what I think, please do so. It is an open, public forum, as I continue to insist.

Like many others, I am starting to give some thought as to whom I associate with in public.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 29, 2006):
<>

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 29, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< Aryeh Oron has kindly placed two more examples (5 & 6) at the bottom of the already existing page at: >
Example 6 (or perhaps 5, don't nit-pick me on that) has introduced yet another unclear term: passus durisculus. It looks to me like it means chromatic scale, but I am unable to find it in my music dictionary.

I am guessing that out of 700+ BCML correspondents, perhaps 10% have a music dictionary of any vintage at hand? Correct me if I am wrong, guys and girls. Everyone with a music dictionary, jump up! Jump Up! That is a legitimate music term for carnival music, not exactly Advent, but coming before Lent. If we are going to do Penitence for Advent, should we not do Jump Up to prepare for Advent as well?

This could be a new, and correct tradition, starting on these very pages!

Back to BWV 91. If the point is to post pages on a public forum which will help the maximum number of people understand the music, does it not make sense to use the most widely understood terms possible? And when you need to digress, define the language?

Jump Up! I can feel you, mes amis!

Chris Rowson wrote (November 30, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
<< Aryeh Oron has kindly placed two more examples (5 & 6) at the bottom of the already existing page at: >>
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< Example 6 (or perhaps 5, don't nit-pick me on that) has introduced yet another unclear term: passus durisculus. It looks to me like it means chromatic scale, but I am unable to find it in my music dictionary. >
I thought the passus duriusculus was usually a falling chromatic passage, as you might expect from the association with sorrow indicated by the name. Like the bass line of Dido�s Lament, for example.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
<< Aryeh Oron has kindly placed two more examples (5 & 6) at the bottom of the already existing page at: >>
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< Example 6 (or perhaps 5, don't nit-pick me on that) has introduced yet another unclear term: passus durisculus. It looks to me like it means chromatic scale, but I am unable to find it in my music dictionary. >
It is in fact in Example 6, where it is spelled correctly: passus duriusculus. Apologies for any confusion my misspelling may have caused to dedicated Bach scholars, experts, and other pedants (thanks, Harry).

No matter how spelled, it is still not in my Harvard Dictionary of Music. The principles are discussed under the entry for chromaticism. I am from Boston (MA, USA, most definitely not Lincs., UK). What is good enough for Harvard is good enough for me. Eschew obfuscation, I always say. Those who find passus duriusculus useful for communication may enjoy this site, among many which can be retrieved from a Google (or other?) search: http://lexikon.freenet.de/Passus_duriusculus

And now, my friends, Jump Up! Only a few days left before penitential Advent. Mighty Sparrow, or just about any Calypso, will do fine.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Chris Rowson wrote:

Chris has raised the important point, easily overlooked by fools such as me struggling with the words, that a passus duriusculus should be a falling chromatic passage, not the rising chromatic passages (2) indicated in Example 6.

The hometown school (Harvard Dictionary of Music) has not let me down: <Chromaticism appeared first in the chromatic tetra chord of Greek music, in which the (descending) fourth into a minor third and two semitones [...] I will leave it to the bean counters (or Graduate Student!) to add up the notes. The key word is descending. The key image in Example 6 is ascending. Twice. No descending.

Up or down, up or down, I will lead them up or down [sigh]. EM paraphrasing Puck, and imitating Ellington clarinets (for the folks really paying attention).

How quick we learn, Harry, even at out age. What am I saying, spring chicken next to you, amigo!

Back to the Examples, 4 for example. What about the circulatios?

And what about American English for both circulatio and passus duriusculus. Where are the translation police when we really need them? Harvard Dictionary will do fine as a standard of translation. Plain language would be even better.

Neil Halliday wrote (November 30, 2006):
Chris Rowson wrote:

[To Ed Myskowski] Ed, the first 'google' page to come up with a search on 'passus duriusculus' has this (and BTW, notice most of these pages are in German, suggesting that the term has limited usage in English?):

<"Der passus duriusculus tritt bei Bach als Motiv auch außerhalb von Chaconne-Themen auf:

1. In Schluss-Chor der Kantate Christen, ätzet diesen Tag BWV 63 ist der Text "dass uns der Satan möge quälen" als chromatisch absteigende Tonleiter im Tritonus-Raum vertont.

2. Im Rezitativ O Christenheit der Kantate Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ BWV 91 komponierte Bach auf die Worte "durch dieses Jammertal" für den Bass eine aufsteigende chromatische Tonleiter im Umfang einer Dezime.>"

Notice the reference to the bass recitative in the cantata we are currently dicussing, ie, BWV 91/4. In this case, the vocal chromatic scale (and the continuo in the second half of the bar) is ascending ("aufsteigende").

In the passage referred to in the closing chorus (Schluss-Chor) of BWV 63 the notes are indeed descending ("absteigende").

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Naeil Halliday wrote:
< This must be one of the few joyful settings of "Kyrie eleis" in music, obviously having the same meaning as "Hallelujah!" or similar, in this context. >
I am striving to be generous. I truly am. That's why I have yet to post a single analytical comment on the colored arrows in Examples 1 to 3. I wanted to give Neil's post a more careful read.

The type of logic expressed in this sentence is easy to miss in a quick scan, but there it is.

When the text says Hallelujah (BTW, could we agon an English spelling just for search sake?) and the music is glorious it is word painting, or some such.

When the text says <Kyrie eleis> it is ... Well, what exactly is it? I believe the sentence I have cited is saying that in this particular instance <Kyrie eleis> means <Halleuiea>, but only this one time, because of the musical context?

That is the best I can extract. If I am wrong, provide the correct interpretation. Then we can move to the arrows, before it is time to move on to next week, and the are in the archives..

My advice, just an informal opinion. Skip the arrows. Provide the music examples, point to a note if necessary. Discuss it. Those of us who are interested can cope, even welcome, an example from the score. Those of us who are not interested are not even looking at the music examples, let alone being influenced by the arrows. Big and blue, big and green, medium and blue. Did I get it right this time? No matter, I am still doing OK at the other.

Leisen (derived from [Kyrie] eleis, in earlier discussions) to all Graduate Students. You know who you are!

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< BWV 91 as a Cantata of antithesis: this is Duerr's stance, to which one can add certain musical contrasts, such as the skipping figuration in the duet, set against two other stylistically removed lines, the walking bass and the intertwining vocal parts. Whether the musical antithises and verbal ones always connnect at the same time is not being suggested. >
Bradley Lehman wrote (April 29, 2003):
<[...] The soprano/alto duet is way too long: during the da capo I went to get a piece of chocolate cake, ate it, and when I came back they were still going. Then the final chorale is formulaic again. Oh well. The cantatas can't all be gems; in the Christmas rush he apparently just wrapped up a handful of painted rocks for this one. Bah, humbug.
(Apologies to anyone who especially likes this cantata.)
Brad "Scrooge" Lehman <end quote>
Hey, maybe you just ate the cake too fast? Anyone who especially likes this cantata [or at least the duet] includes me. Apologies accepted!

I am getting a few words out tonight on BWV 91 itself, the music, no matter what. Just so I don't lose that luscious chocolate cake reference. And the painted rocks, my favorite gift to get or give.

Back around 1985 when CDs were on the horizon, threatening to drive out LPs, Bach would have been 300 if that were possible, and Rilling had just completed his recording series. So a radio station could play all the bach cantatas. Would anyone do anything so silly? Yes, indeed. WHRB (if you are following along, you may recognize the letters: Harvard Radio Broadcasting). The very same Harvard we have recently seen in the Harvard Dictionary of Music. The very same Harvard where Christoph Wolff hangs out (actually he is the Adams Professor, or something like that, quite prestigious). Right in my home town. Full disclosure: I did not go to school at Harvard. I went to an engineering school down the road a km or two.

So in the winter of 1985, WHRB played them all in BWV order, non stop, around the clock. It is called an orgy(r). The little r in a circle that I have approximated by (r) indicates that the concept of orgy is a registered trademark. Not to worry, they have never busted any orgy I have attended. I think it is a bit of a joke, irony if you will. But what would I know about irony, I'm American (are you there, Hens?)

So I was shopping in the Harvard Coöperative Store (the Coop) for the after X-mas sales. That is the store which used to be the best place to buy records, when there were records. And there was a gray box, distinct from a brown box, five H&L LPs for under ten bucks. I am thinking it was eight bucks, but it may have been as much as $9.99.

A compilation of X-mas cantatas (no scores! special packaging and price), including BWV 91. OK, that's where we were trying to get to. I played them all. The duet from BWV 91 caught my ear. i played all of them again once or twice over the years, except for BWV 91, which has been my X-mas music ever since. I might have missed an occasional year, but other years I played it more than once.

A reasonable estimate, I have played the LP 50 times, maybe a bit more, maybe less. It still sounds just as good as the ones I have only played once or twice. The LP is not dead. Let me rethink that. The LP is dead. Send me yours and I will give them a proper burial.

So for twenty years, I had one version of BWV 91, with Leonhardt [2] spending 8:10 on the duet. I loved it the first time I heard it! It was the music which committed me, sooner or later, to spending time with the bach cantatas. I didn't know much more than that, other than having heard them all once from start to finish. (It is a tradition major orgies, that you don't bother to sleep during important music).

I have it (H&L BWV 91) out a month early this year. I still love it, like a pet bird or wife (sorry ladies) you have had for a long time. For the first time, I have lots of other records to compare: Herreweghe [7], Rilling [1], Leusink [4], Koopman [5]. And a BGA score (without arrows) courtesy of a list member who sent a scan.

I have yet to use the score, so you can count on additional reports. Especially if we get any explanations of:
(1) Arrows
(2) Circulatio
(3) Ascending passus (oxymoron? But I'm just a plain moron).

The bass line has never sounded like a walking bass, to me. More like what you should call an ostinato. My trusty HMD does not provide an American English equivalent to ostinato. By implication, it is an acceptable English term. But it is the bass line, ostinato or what you like, which is the hook. And Bach knew it (I speculate). How long can I make this go on, and get away with it.

Long enough for Brad to get a piece of cake and say <is that still going on?> Gotta love you both, Bach and Brad!

Walking bass is more like a passus with jazz inflection, no dotted rhythms. Or actually, like a chromaticism, because walking bass can be either rising or falling. Which gets us back to the beginning. Anyone who cares to discuss walking bass, nothing I would enjoy more, other than this weeks or next weeks cantata!

BTW, Mingus never played walking bass. If anyone had the audacity to ask him to, he would have said .

And the rest of the analysis? Piece of cake.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< Notice the reference to the bass recitative in the cantata we are currently dicussing, ie, BWV 91/4. In this case, the vocal chromatic scale (and the continuo in the second half of the bar) is ascending ("aufsteigende"). >
This is exactly the problem of using a conventional figure and definition. It has meant one thing for a hundred years. Then Bach does something related, but different. Revolutionary, if you will. And now , another couple hundred years later, we try to say <Bach added this new thing, to the old definition, but it means the same>.

Much more discussion and analysis than that required. All I am ever asking for. I love your respect for the music! You have a friend, whether we agree or not.

Alain Bruguières wrote (November 30, 2006):
[To Ed myskowski] I have come across various definitions of passus duriusculus via google. Some define it as a descending chromatic scale. Others define it as a chromatic scale, ascending or descending.

One should be careful when coming across a definiton of such a word, not to consider it as the ultimate definition.

My experience is that in the baroque era people interested in music were not so intent on having non-ambiguous definitions as we are today.

This is precisely the reason why I suggested to no longer use the term circulatio when referring to 'X-motifs'. Using vague terms leads to misunderstanding, or drowning in the stoup.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Alain Bruguières wrote:
< This is precisely the reason why I suggested to no longer usthe term circulatio when referring to 'X-motifs'. Using vague terms leads to misunderstanding, or drowning in the stoup. >
Merci, mon ami (thanks, my friend). Most especially, I appreciate the humor, the stoup. And the remarkable fact that two people can become friends, and sort out misunderstandings, without ever meeting. All on the basis of a single letter, the t in stoup, which distinguishes it from soup. It has been fun!

I agree 100% . I know Harry is spectating, and will appreciate it if I say, that means the same thing as .

Which is the reason I am asking for clarification of the figures in Example 4 of the Score Samples with BWV 91. They are labeled circulatio. What in general does that mean, how does it relate to our agreed terminology of X-motif, and how was that significant to Bach.

Personally, I would find those options more clear if they were laid out in a little menu of 1,2,3. But there have been remarks directed toward me which suggest that clear choices create confusion. As an example, either A or B obscures the fuzzy ground between A and B. I agree with, BTW. Clarifying the fuzzy ground is recisely the post of discussion and agreement on basic terms. Etc.

In the interests of demonstrating my flexibility, I have abandoned the listed choices of 1,2, or 3. and instead presented them in sentence format. But if I were to present them as a list, they would look something like this: For BWV 91, Score Samples, Example 4
(1) What is the meaning of the circulatio designation
(2) How does that relate to our agreed (?) terminology of X-motif
(3) What is the significance for Bach

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
I previously wrote

That should read;

I agree with that, BTW. Clarifying the fuzzy ground is precisely the point of discussion and agreement on basic terms. Etc.

I think it had something to do with the excitement of finding just the right word: Etc. Or perhaps the hour of the night, leftover turkey, any number of possible factors.

Alain Bruguières wrote (November 30, 2006):
[To Ed myskowski] For one thing, you may appreciate the following definition of 'passus duriusculus': http://cezzar.org/dico/index.php?title=Passus+duriusculus
It is in French, I hope you can understand or at least guess the meaning...

The questions you ask are pertinent.
< In the interests of demonstrating my flexibility, I have abandoned the listed choices of 1,2, or 3. and instead presented them in sentence format. But if I were to present them as a list, they would look something like this: For BWV 91, Score Samples, Example 4
(1) What is the meaning of the circulatio designation
(2) How does that relate to our agreed (?) terminology of X-motif
(3) What is the significance for Bach >
As for (1), having come across various definitions, including (I translate-quote from memory):
"a motif where the notes circulate around a certain value, and ending by that value."
This is rather fuzzy. One may argue that any melody is a circulatio!
However sometimes fuzzy terms can be useful to convey a meaning, provided one is aware that they are fuzzy. You could say that a motif is more or less a circulatio, according whether the initial notes 'circulate' more or less around the final note... 'circulate' meaning move upwards and downwards before settling. So I'd be willing to accept circulatio on those terms. (2) An X-motif would be a special case of a circulatio, and a precise concept.
(3) We will never know for a fact the significance of most of what Bach ever produced, I'm afraid. We can only 'speculate'.

Unfortunately we cannot rely on a scientific approach, since Bach is not a reproductible experiment. I would advocate the use of 'constructive hypotheses'. We formulate a hypothesis, and we try to see if this hypothesis helps explain what we see on the scores. If it does, we never know for sure that the hypothesis was true; but we have a new and interesting way of approaching the scores.

In the case of the X-motif, the hypothesis would be:
even if the X-motif is simple enough to have a high probability of appearance in any piece of music, so that its appearance may well be unmotivated, we assume that it is part of Bach's palette of significant motifs, and that Bach often uses it to refer to the idea of the cross.

If we make this assumption, then we are faced with a difficulty - which is inherent to this way of thinking. If we come across an X-motif where the word 'cross' appears in the text, we may safely apply the hypothesis to suggest that the motif is significant there. However if the X-motif appears next to a text which is less directly related to the idea of 'cross', we have to decide whether Bach made a deliberate allusion to the cross there, or if the X-motif is 'purely musical'.

This is a real difficulty. That's sufficient reason for being careful, but this should not stop us (stoups?) from working with constructive hypotheses, I think. Provided we keep in mind that they are what they are.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
<< BWV91 as a Cantata of antithesis: this is Duerr's stance, to which one can add certain musical contrasts, such as the skipping figuration in the duet, set against two other stylistically removed lines, the walking bass and the intertwining vocal parts. Whether the musical antithises and verbal ones always connnect at the same time is not being suggested. >>
I previously wrote:
< The bass line has never sounded like a walking bass, to me. >
Even a quick listen to Koopman [5], score in hand makes, the walking bass sound like a much more reasonable description than I earlier thought, from memory. Apologies for writing in haste, I will pick up this point in more detail.

Peter Smaill wrote (November 30, 2006):
[To Ed myskowski] Passus duriusculus- we have certainly discussed this term on BCW before; usually it is descending form, but ascends when inverted. The nomenclature appears correct in either direction, though Bach is careful to give an appropriate Affekt. For example, the rising form indicates ascent from sinfulness or the grave - especially evident in the Chorale "Durch deine Gefaegnis" in the SJP (BWV 245) in the closing bars. This interpretation (the passus goes both ways) is that of the theorist Bernhard, for which see:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3870/is_200301/ai_n9231900/pg_4

From this article it is clear that a variety of baroque rhetorical devices are adapted by Bach which were in general use, the aggregation of which especially in Bach frequently leads to a hermeneutic sub-text in the Cantatas.

Julian Mincham wrote (November 30, 2006):
Through circumstances I have not been able to read all the postings on this cantata but I cannot resist commenting upon the duet, one of my favourite movements. So apologies for any duplication of ideas.

I also apologise for any dangerous constructionism--the interpretations are mine and others may interpret differently.

The soprano/alto duet from Cantata BWV 91 is, without doubt in my mind, the key to the entire cantata. Here Bach has portrayed musically the two paradoxical aspects of Christ described in the earlier movements. The string ritornello is woven from a repetitive dotted rhythm, itself making use of the three repeated notes provided by the chorale (a motive found in every movement thus providing a sort of musical 'glue' throughout).

This idea, again with echoes of the French Overture, had already been suggested, but more subtly, in the tenor aria. It conveys, I suggest, Christ's stature and authority. After all, as the text makes clear, it is because of Him that we may traverse the heavens and join the angel choir. There is no variety of instrumental colour here; nor is any required. Authority is not diminished with the march of time,so the combined violins can continue to declaim their theme above a solid marching bass.

But the singers play no part in expressing this idea for they are representing the other aspect of Christ. Not once do they take up the dotted rhythms. They are preoccupied with the lowly, pauper aspects of His life and their repeated dissonant suspensions express its poignancy. Christ's humility reflects and provides a model for our own and it contrasts strongly with the grandeur and joy of the Lord and Saviour which Christmas traditionally celebrates. Though, let it not be thought that the singers indulge in an outpouring of tragedy. It could not be thus, because God chose this way for his Son and the consequences of His actions have proven to be entirely positive for all believers. The vocal lines convey something quite different; a most subtle emotion that combines a touch of sadness with an affinity with the privations Christ endured. Impossible to describe precisely in words, nevertheless Bach captures the feeling exactly in his music.

Notable also are the singers' rising chromatic scales when describing Christ's semblance of lowliness which He assumed in order that we might achieve salvation. The imagery here is complex and multi-layered. The rising pitches suggest the achieving of higher things. But we need to recall that Bach's use of a falling chromatic scale, particularly in this key of E minor, frequently suggests the crucifixion (see, for example, Cantata BWV 4 and the B minor Mass (BWV 232)). Here we have the agonizing image of the crucifixion reversed. Echoes of this momentous event remain, but its higher purpose is also revealed. Different interpretations are possible of course--I only pass on what I see and hear in and understand from this superb movement which combines contrasting ideas within the one fully unified artistic expression.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 30, 2006):
Alain Bruguières wrote:
< However if the X-motif appears next to a text which is less directly related to the idea of 'cross', we have to decide whether Bach made a deliberate allusion to the cross there, or if the X-motif is 'purely musical'.
This is a real difficulty. That's sufficient reason for being careful, but this should not stop us (stoups?) from working with constructive hypotheses, I think. Provided we keep in mind that they are what they are. >
Once again, I agree 100%. In fact I have been saying this right along. It is a significant research project, and one worth doing. Another thesis topic the academics can pluck from these pages.

I do not understand exactly why my thoughts were met with such hostility. It appears it was something to do with the need for a Graduate Student to prepare and defend the thesis. Indeed, it could be done without a GS, as independent research, self-education as opposed to formal education, as it were. But it is incorrect to say it is not worth doing because of too much bean counting involved.

A bit OT, but you may enjoy to know that there is an English word with Dutch origin, stoop, meaning a porch or platform at the entrance of a house. In casual usage, and mostly in urban settings, it is a place to hang out, drink beer, etc., on hot summer nights. I believe there is a song lyric along those lines, probably something by the Drifters, but it escapes me at the moment. Someone will get it. Stoop is also an alternate spelling for stoup, I don't believe we got that the first time around.

See you on the stoop, some summer night, mon ami!

Chris Rowson wrote (November 30, 2006):
I realise that some people have a different view, and have expressed it, but I hope it will be acceptable for me equally to express mine. In my opinion the exposition with coloured arrows etc. in the score samples for BWV 91 is highly questionable.

In example 1, we see the repeated scale passages dismembered to reveal the chorale melody.

However, in order to achieve this it is necessary to pick out from the scales the notes that form the start of the melody, with a complete disregard for rhythm. Since the six scales contain all the notes of the major scale, six times, it would hardly be possible for the first line of the melody not to be there.

In fact any diatonic line of this length where much of the motion is in the same direction as the scales is necessarily there.

In example 3, I find the treatment of the horn passage quite bewildering. This is a typical piece of 1720s figuration. Again, the notes of the chorale melody don�t stand out at all on listening. In fact, the first note isn�t even there, and has to be sought in another part.

It would probably be possible to find exactly this figure in more than one contemporary Italian opera. When Handel or Hasse write similar figuration for castrati singing about love and war, is that also a reference to this chorale melody?

I can accept Julian Mincham�s perception of the powerful three-note "Gelobet" motif which opens the melody as "glue" unifying the cantata, but drafting in every possible passing note in an attempt to excavate the first line of the chorale is in my view ridiculous.

The bottom line is that this ritornello doesn�t sound remotely like the chorale melody.

I have hesitated to present my view on this matter because I do not wish to be divisive, but I think it is a shame for this list to be made a subject of ridicule.

Alain Bruguières wrote (November 30, 2006):
< But it is incorrect to say it is not worth doing because of too much bean counting involved. >
If the scores of Bach's work were available in electronic form, searching for occurrences of a given pattern would be virtually instantaneous. That would assume that the score are scanned and transformed into a text format encoding the notes and musical signs (and of course the result of the scan would have to be corrected by a human being). I don't know is such a format exists (probably quite a few do exist!) nor if such a project is being carried out.Anybody ever heard of such a project?

Neil Halliday wrote (December 1, 2006):
Chris Rowson wrote:
>The bottom line is that this ritornello doesn�t sound remotely like the chorale melody<.
I happened to be practising the organ chorale prelude "Nun komm' der Heiden Heiland" BWV 659 today, and soon realised I could not find the CM in this highly embellished arrangement. A look at the page presented by Thomas Braatz shows just how far this arrangement strays from the underlying CM.
http://bach-cantatas.com/CM/Nun-komm.htm
(Scroll down about 1/3 of the page to the example of BWV 659).

My question is: how does the method of highlighting the CM notes (in red) in the above case, where we know that the CM is being referred to (because Bach has told us, with the title of the piece!) - how does this differ from the high-lighting of notes in the case of the ritornello in, for example, 91/1?
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV91-Sco.htm

It is obviously not that there are sometimes many notes between the (red) notes of the CM, or that the notes are not on the beat, or appropriately spaced, or even of the proper length - see the BWV 659 example.

Is it because the notes are in different octaves, or on different staves, in the case of the BWV 91/1 examples?

In other words, can anyone actually elucidate the difference between highlighting the notes in red in the BWV 659 example - obviously legitimate, as a method of `finding' the CM in that highly embellished line (especially noting this line sometimes has extensive material that does not appear to be related to the CM at all) - and applying the same process in the case of the ritornellos of the chorale cantatas?

Chris Rowson wrote (December 1, 2006):
[To Neil Halliday] For me, the writing in BWV 659 is clearly an embellishment of the CM. That in the BWV 91/1 ritornello is clearly not.

The decorative techniques in BWV 659 are recognisably related to those of the French harpsichord and organ music which JSB had seen, and to those used by him else, including the Goldberg aria, and those used and described in detail by Quantz. And I do hear the Chorale melody.

Chris Rowson wrote (December 1, 2006):
Alain Bruguières wrote:
< For one thing, you may appreciate the following definition of 'passus duriusculus': http://cezzar.org/dico/index.php?title=Passus+duriusculus
It is in French, I hope you can understand or at least guess the meaning... >
But if the term "passus duriusculus" is detached from the association with pathos and (often) death which it has acquired (vide Schütz, Purcell, etc., even JSB), does it not simply mean "chromatic passage"?

If this is correct, I suggest we refrain from obscurantism and follow the English-language principle of this list by using the English term.

Alain Bruguières wrote (December 1, 2006):
Chris Rowson wrote:
< For me, the writing in BWV 659 is clearly an embellishment of the CM. That in the BWV 91/1 ritornello is clearly not.
The decorative techniques in BWV 659 are recognisably related to those of the French harpsichord and organ music which JSB had seen, and to those used by him elsewhere, including the Goldberg aria, and those used and described in detail by Quantz. And I do hear the Chorale melody. >
I agree with Chris that I can hear the Chorale melody in BWV 659. Probably if I didn't know it was there, I would not notice it, not after many careful hearings at least. However I think that, if I were fully immersed in the lutheran musical culture of Bach's era, the choral melody would be more obvious to me, and I do not believe that
Bach tried to hide it there, only embellish it.

If a relation between the 4^th fugue of the WTC and Nun komm der Heiden Heiland exists, it is of a similar type. The fact that similarities occurred to Tim Smith and I completely independently convinces me that we're on the right track.

Now if I understand well, Thomas is exploring a 'constructive hypothesis' : in the chorale fantasias, even when the instrumental ritornello bear no obvious thematic relation to the chorale melody, the chorale melody may be present in a non-obvious way.

I find this constructive hypothesis daring, interesting and worth exploring. Having written introductory messages for 10 weeks,I have almost always come across a sentence like 'the instrumental structure is independent from the chorale melody' in Dürr's book (just as 'the plain 4-part concluding chorale'). The repetition of these standardized statements makes me slightly suspicious.

So, even if Thomas's observations do not always convince me - the manner of extracting notes to show the melody is not musical - I think he's right in pursuing his exploration, and sometimes it does seem plausible to me. Perhaps Bach is doing something different here from what he's doing in BWV 659. Perhaps he's working on a purely graphical level. Why not after all? For me it is too early to draw conclusions. In any case keeping an open mind is not a ridiculous attitude. The history of science shows that many who have ridiculed new ideas are now remembered only for having done precisely that. Probably not the form of celebrity they would have hoped for!

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 1, 2006):
Neil Halliday wrote:
< http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV91-Sco.htm
It is obviously not that there are sometimes many notes between the (red) notes of the CM, or that the notes are not on the beat, or appropriately spaced, or even of the proper length ? see the BWV 659 example. >
Chris Rowson wrote:
< In example 1, we see the repeated scale passages dismembered to reveal the chorale melody. However, in order to achieve this it is necessary to pick out from the scales the notes that form the start of the melody, with a complete disregard for rhythm. Since the six scales contain all the notes of the major scale, six times, it would hardly be possible for the first line of the melody not to be there. <end quote>
I think Chris' point, with which I agree, if only because of its irrefutable simplicity, is not that you cannot find the CM melody in those passages.

Indeed, just the opposite. You can find it and any other CM melody in there. So what?

The site appears to be under construction, so I will be patient to see where it ends up. So far, the circulatio without explanation, remains in Example 4, sticking out like a sore thumb (waiting to be hit again with a hammer?) At the very least, it should reflect the simplified language (X-motif) Alain suggested, after our lengthy and ultimately rewarding exchanges. Bonjour, mon ami!

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 1, 2006):
Alain Bruguières wrote:
< The history of science shows that many who have ridiculed new ideas are now remembered only for having done precisely that. Probably not the form of celebrity they would have hoped for! >
I would not be so sure of that. For many folks, any form of celebrity, even notoriety, is prefereable to obscurity.

Continue of this part of the discussion, see: Passus duriusculus [General Topics]

Canyon Rick wrote (December 1, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< Passus duriusculus- we have certainly discussed this term on BCW before; usually it is descending form, but ascends when inverted. The nomenclature appears correct in either direction, though Bach is careful to give an appropriate Affekt. For example, the rising form indicates ascent from sinfulness or the grave - especially evident in the Chorale "Durch deine Gefaegnis" in the SJP (BWV 245) in the closing bars. This interpretation (the passus goes both ways) is that of the theorist Bernhard, for which see: >
I must say I detect something of a Wagnerian tone to this and other posts in this discussion. For example, in Deryk Cooke's excellent audio analysis of The Ring--"An Introduction to Der Ring des Nibelungen"--he notes the following about Erda in Sc4 of Rheingold:

"So far the transformations of the Nature motive have been simple ones, but the next is more radical; the motive turns upside down implying its own opposite. When Erda begins to warn Wotan of the end in store for the gods, the orchestra accompanies her with her own motive - itself a simple transformation of the Nature motive as we have heard; but as she comes to the point the orchestra changes her rising motive into a falling one. The motive of life and growth becomes the motive of death and decay."

Did Bach influence Wagner? Quite probably so. But, did Wagner influence Bach? Well, you could say that he influenced Bach's listeners to point that they look for Wagnerian-like motives in his music. And I don't think this is, by any means, bad that we analyze in such a way or to this degree. Indeed, it is, perhaps, remarkable that Bach's music holds up to deep scrutiny. Few other composers write music that does.

Whether Bach consciously said to himself, "I am writing about sin and death; therefore I must make use of a Passus duriusculus" is debatable. Personally, I like to think it all comes naturally, so to speak. Bach writes; we listen and analyze.

I hope this makes some sense.

(If anyone is interested, there is an essay I wrote about Bach and Wagner which can be read here: http://startyger.deviantart.com/ )

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 2, 2006):
Peter Smaill wrote:
<< Passus duriusculus- we have certainly discussed this term on BCW before; usually it is descending form, but ascends when inverted. The nomenclature appears correct in either direction, though Bach is careful to give an appropriate Affekt. For example, the rising form indicates ascent from sinfulness or the grave - especially evident in the Chorale "Durch deine Gefaegnis" in the SJP (BWV 245) in the closing bars. This interpretation (the passus goes both ways) is that of the theorist Bernhard, for which see: >>
Canyon Rick wrote:

Wasn't there a famous guy once, who was quoted by one of his followers: <Seek, and you shall find.>? Matt. 7:7, Luke 11:9 [further discussion below]

I think there may be a bit of that going on with us as well, on the CM, X-motif, and chromatic series threads.

I read the entire essay, you can just put a gold star on one of my posts sometime. I enjoyed the connection and continuity from a youthful experience. I won't give away the ending and spoil it for others, but I would go with a stone carver as greatest artist of all time. Perhaps Michaelangelo, a cool guy who only needs one name. Or the guy who carved the Grand Canyon, who needs no name at all.

Seek (cont.): I referred to <one of his followers> despite the two Biblical references, because they both use precisely the same words! Pretty clearly (much less speculatively than an X in the notes of a Bach score, for example) there must be a single source for the report of this phrase, either Matt. or Luke, or they both copied someone else.

Canyon Rick wrote (December 2, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< I read the entire essay, you can just put a gold star on one of my posts sometime. I enjoyed the connection and continuity from a youthful experience. I won't give away the ending and spoil it for others, but I would go with a stone carver as greatest artist of all time. Perhaps Michaelangelo, a cool guy who only needs one name. >
Well, thank you there, Ed! I appreciate your read. If you want to go back in my journals, there's an essay (long, but not as long) on the SMP (BWV 244).

Keep in mind Schopenhauer's discourse on music vs other arts. On a personal level, I tend to agree as I don't find the other arts nearly as compelling (tho, to be sure, the vast majority of music does not rise to a level which supports the Schopenhauerian philosophy. But, when it does...)

< Or the guy who carved the Grand Canyon, who needs no name at all. >
As a former Grand Canyon ranger, I might argue that the guy you are talking about is the one who created El Rio Colorado and the upllft in the Colorado/Kaibab Plateaus. However, while Wagner might be an acceptable OT discussion, I doubt geology is.

< Seek (cont.): I referred to <one of his followers> despite the two Biblical references, because they both use precisely the same words! Pretty clearly (much less speculatively than an X in the notes of a Bach score, for example) there must be a single source for the report of this phrase, either Matt. or Luke, or they both copied someone else. >
If I am not mistaken, biblical scholars have indentified a lost NT source called "Q". This has nothing to do with Star Trek:TNG or John de Lancie (was his father a famous oboist?). "Q" stands for "Quell" meaning source in German (tho I've always wondered how accurate this translation is because the exhausted Siegmund arrives in ACT 1 of Walküre asking for "Ein Quell, ein Quell"

< Aloha, Ed Myskowski >
For some strange reason I have an image of you listening to Bach wearing boardshorts and a Hawaiian shirt :)
Thanks again for taking the time to read my journal http://startyger.deviantart.com/

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 2, 2006):
Canyon Rick wrote:
< However, while Wagner might be an acceptable OT discussion, I doubt geology is. >
Life is simple. This is a Bach list. Wagner and geology are OT. I prefer talking about geology, rather than Wagner. Perhaps you prefer the other? I promise, if we met in the flesh, we would be best of friends in a microsecond. Why quibble.

< If I am not mistaken, biblical scholars have indentified a lost NT source called "Q". This has nothing to do with Star Trek:TNG or John de Lancie (was his father a famous oboist?). "Q" stands for "Quell" meaning source in German (tho I've always wondered how accurate this translation is because the exhausted Siegmund arrives in ACT 1 of Walküre asking for "Ein Quell, ein Quell" >
I do not have opinion on the details, but I will try to track down some of the thoughts. The general concept, that there is an earlier source, that both Matt. and Luke cribbed from, was precisely my point. Thanks for noticing.

< For some strange reason I have an image of you listening to Bach wearing boardshorts and a Hawaiian shirt :) >
Strange reason? Once again, thanks for noticing. I have a couple Reyn Spooner limited edition Mele Kalikimaka (Eng. tran. Merry X-mas) shirts, which I traditionally take out only for the Polish X-mas Eve festival, back here in icy New England. That is also when I traditionally play my Leonhardt LP [2], BWV 91 (in case anyone is checking for relevance). I usually skip (eschew?) the boardshorts in Hawaii, because I do rocks , not surf. Many of the rocks are sharp, for example a'a (Eng. tran. ouch'ouch) lava.

I like to take little breaks for paragraphs when I am writing, this seemed like a good spot. If you catch your knee on that stuff (a'a) it hurts like a son-of-a bitch. That is why the Hawaiians named it ouch'ouch, and why I prefer long pants. A'a is the formal geologic term for that kind of lava, equally technically correct to the Latin name for Julian's father's fossil (Parvancorina minchami), one of the earliest known advanced lifeforms. Depending on your definition of advanced. Most BCML members qualify.

The legends that Bach memorialized happened somewhere in the interval of 600 million years between P. minchami and a'a. Much closer to the a'a. All of my Hawaiian work came about because there was a hypothesis, with funding, that all the rock art (petroglyphs) was begun by Chinese navigators long about 0 A.D. I doubt that the Chinese called it that. I pointed out that many of the rocks in Hawaii are younger than the proposed age for the art. An elementary school student could see that, I have an advanced geology degree.. They added me to the research team, for several trips. Mahalo (thank you).

I would be much more impressed with the X-tos legends if there were more reports of him (X) saying a'a. That must have hurt, if you catch my drift. No disrespect intended. I am in awe of anyone who becomes a legend by saying <Seek, and ye shall find>.

That's why I try to write lots of short sentences. You never know.

Still one more day of pre-Advent Jump Up. Maybe more, I am frantically checking the fine print in the liturgical calendar and regulations.

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 2, 2006):
Craig Smith, Emmanuel Music:
<In Bach's day Christmas was not as oppressively cheery as it is today.>

That is a repeat post, but I think it essential that no one miss it. In case you might think the Jump Up will last forever.

The sweet thing about making friends is that no one is excluded, ever. It is a skill best learned in kindergarten. But better late than never. First step is the most difficult. That would be passus duriusculus. Or, in extreme cases, saltus d. Whatever, give it a try. Or not. Either way is OK for most of us. Up and down. Up or down.

Can you hear me, Harry.

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 2, 2006):
I have had a final listen before ... before something, perhaps last day of Jump Up before First Sunday in Advent? Phew.

Only the most dedicated X-quester could hear a chorale in the opening of BWV 91. That is Jump Up music. Written for later in the month. Works fine for me right now.

Neil Halliday wrote (December 2, 2006):
BWV 91: SA duet

In the duet's central section, I hope everyone has noticed the syncopated line that is always associated with the ascending chromatic line.

The pattern to listen to is:

1. A, ascending line, with S, syncopated line.
2. S, ascending line, with A, syncopated line.
3. violins, ascending line, with S, syncopated line.
4. continuo, ascending line, with violins, syncopated line.

The second time through has the same motifs in a changed order, which should be easily heard in the recordings.

Happy listening.

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 2, 2006):
Jump Up [Introduction to BWV 91 "Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ"

I previously wrote;

After a nap, appropriatebrief in respect of the festive concept of Jump Up, I have had an insight:

Jump Up is a pefectly fine Eng. tran for saltus duiriusculus. If I have successfully penetrated Chafe's language, that is a passus d., but with larger intervals. Any successful penetration brings a grin to this old mans' face!

Apologies, italic function again on holiday, as well. Should be on the s.d. and p.d.

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 2, 2006):
Advent Begins 3^rd December
The start of the Christmas season
(from on-line Advent Calendar)

Confirming my guess that today, Dec. 2, is the final day of pre-Advent Jump Up. An opportunity not to be squandered on seriousness. Let frivolity reign (rain?).

Thomas Braatz wrote (December 2, 2006):
BWV 91/1 Score Sample "Leaping for Joy"

Re: Leap in CM from m8 to m10 of BWV 91/1

In the CM section of the BCW under "Von Gott will ich nicht lassen" Buxtehude and "Vater unser im Himmelreich" Böhm, you may find possible examples of the CM switching from one octave to another as the CM is being embellished by these composers in their chorale preludes.

More important, however, for the consideration of the single leap of the CM into a higher octave where it remains for the duration of the incipit is the following possible connection with ideas presented by Andreas Werckmeister in his book "Musicalische Paradoxal-Discourse", Quedlinburg, 1707. There is no other German treatise on music that treats as extensively and in such detail the theological and mathematical foundation upon which music is based. It is an essential text for understanding how theology pervades all aspects and levels of practical and theoretical music-making in the Baroque.

For Werckmeister and those who followed his line of thinking, a unison is God, a single being from the beginning to the end of time and in eternity, a beginning without a beginning and whose power stretches into eternity. The number 8 (Werckmeister speaks here simultaneously of numbers as numbers/proportions (possibly also as they appear as divisions of a sounding string on a monochord), but he also indicates their positions on a keyboard: the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8 = the keys C (bass, octave below middle C), C (middle C), C (one octave above middle C), and C (two octaves above middle C). There are 7 consonant sounds in an octave: minor 3rd, major 3^rd, 4^th, 5^th, minor 6^th, major 6^th and the octave. They comprise an octave, the 'plenitude' which is contained in God. In discussing the dissonant musical numbers (and specific keys on a keyboard), Werckmeister refers to the 8 (or 8th?) as two octaves above middle C, the 9 (or 9th?) as the D directly above the C just referred to, and the 10 (or 10th?) as the E a whole step above the latter D. (p. 103). In any case, Werckmeister relates the number 9 to the key on the keyboard having the pitch/tone of a D which has a sound 2 octaves and one whole note above middle C (whatever specific pitch the latter happened to have).

It is this D which Bach has chosen to emphasize by placing it in the most prominent, highest position as a whole note (a 9th higher than the last previous note of the CM incipit in the horn) played by the first violins. It comes after the first horn has sounded the C an octave lower by 'tapping' the note 4 times, after which there is in the next measure an arpeggiated movement upward in the upper strings leading to the climax on the high D. All of this takes place in the middle of the word "Je-su", the main focus of this chorale text.

How does Werckmeister describe the number 9 or the note which happens to be a 9th higher than the last C sounded by the horn? Putting a C next to a D on a keyboard creates a dissonance. In the same way that the 9 has its original source in the number 3, since 3 X 3 = 9 [3 = Holy Spirit], thus, in like manner, the number 9 is the key to Paradise, which is closed to fallen mankind by the 'cherub', or the Spirit of God, so that nothing impure should enter into it. This number also has the figure of Lucifer in it. He wields a fiery sword. That is why the 8 will not harmonize with the 9, since 8 is a number from Paradise which reflects back upon the 4, 2 and 1.

It appears significant to me that Bach has placed this high D on the '-su' of "Jesu'. With Werckmeister in mind [it is very difficult to conceive of Bach not being acquainted with Werckmeister's ideas as published in his books], Bach could easily have considered the Advent of Jesus Christ as the key to unlocking Paradise for all mankind.

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 4, 2006):
This has been a very interesting week. Besides all the commentary unrelated to BWV 91, it is also a transitional time because of the unusual relation of our discussion chronology to the liturgical year. On personal note, it is very transitional for me. I have gone from a single recording (Leonhardt LP) [2] that I have played many times over the years, to a total of five recordings avaialble, plus a score to follow.

On first listening to Herreweghe [7], his tempos sounded a little quick, after being so accustomed to Leonhardt. But the S and female A soloists in the duet, Mvt. 5, and the oboes led by Marcel Ponseele with T Mark Padmore in Mvt 3 have won me over, and made this my first choice. To my ears, Herreweghe's performances are always characterized by a striving for balance. Some may quibble over details (indeed, some always quibble over details), but I don't find any extremes of interpretation sticking out to become aggravating. Just the opposite, a performance that grows on me with repeated listening. Nevertheless, Leonhardt [2] still is very enjoyable, with unique characteristics such as the boy S., still sounding good after all these years.

One real surprise was how much I enjoyed Leusink [4], with S Ruth Holton at her boyish best, and Bewilder at his best (or at least, least bad?) in the duet format. I am just not bothered by him, the way many are. The litotes is dedicated to Peter Small, who introduced me to the term earlier in the year, and you can all laugh or weep at the grammatically correct repetition of least. I expect there are many members who rely on Leusink for basic listening. I would not find this a compomise. Sample the alternatives as time and finances permit, or just play and enjoy the basics.

Another surprise is how much I have come to prefer the more delicate HIP style. Helen Donath S and Helen Watts A, with Rilling [1], are singers I have admired for many years, and still do. They are certainly better than OK, but no longer my first choice in this music.

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 4, 2006):
On Fri, Dec 01, I wrote:
< The site appears to be under construction, so I will be patient to see where it ends up. So far, the circulatio without explanation, remains in Example 4, sticking out like a sore thumb (waiting to be hit again with a hammer?) At the very least, it should reflect the simplified language (X-motif) Alain suggested, after our lengthy and ultimately rewarding exchanges. <end quote>
It appears that the site is reconstructed, or at least once again available complete. Actually, I do not see any, not a bit, of evidence of reconstruction. Perhaps I am overlooking something. As I previously expressed, seems like last century, I remain open-minded, just awaiting evidence and explanation.

I am anticipating using American colloquial expressions in these pages. For clarity of communication, I believe I should label them as such. In order to save keystrokes, I am proposing the acronym ACE, for addition to the BCW lexicon. While awaiting approval, I will just go ahead and use it, subject to subsequent revision.

I count myself fortunate that I am at a stage of life when I manage my own time, and can spend it as I choose. You lucky devils, you! (ACE, not to be taken personally by anyone). I am choosing to spend it with all of you.

You may recall my mention of Boston columnist George Frazie, in a post yesterday. Just to remind you, he is the one who borrowed the sobriquet <Nick Dixon> from Dixon's former boss, Ike the Good. Frazier is my hero as a writer, even more so than James Joyce or Shikespower (JJ, Finnegans Wake). Are you still out there Hens.

A brief citation from Frazier, before we get back on topic. From a column on the autobiographic side, which he had stashed for a day when he was out of other ideas and in danger of missing a deadline. He had already pushed the limit, or actually missed, so many deadlines, that the next was certain to the last. Terminal. The quote:

I'd be the kind of man people would call Killer or Two Gun--

Or maybe Duke,
And when I'd glower, they'd cower
I'd be the fastest gun in the West [(ACE),...]

I'd wear a digger hat. And talk Australian slang--

Like, for instance, fair dinkum,
Whatever the hell that may mean. <end quote>

In this context, you might think the Duke to be John Wayne. The clever deception is characteristic of Frazier. To his regular readers, there was not a shadow of a doubt (ACE) that the reference is to Edward Kennedy (Duke) Ellington, with perhaps a hint of double entendre for Wayne.

Like Frazier, I am clueless (ACE) as to the meaning of fair dinkum so I cannot provide an Eng. tran. Help us out here, Julian, Neil, Neil, anyone?

I have tried to use the euphemism <mess with Myskowski>, but it just does not work. The original is my wife's caution to the careless or thoughtless (or even witless) transgressor: <Don't f__k with the P_la_k!> There, that should get us by, and all on the same page (ACE). A few of you have chuckled at this, off-list. I didn't think I should leave you with an unfair advantage. Sometimes Paulina says el Polaco rather than the P_la_k. She claims that is perfect Spanish, for example, her favorite bread remains pan Polaco, from her Cuban origins. I have no independent opinion on this issue. If you disagree with her, you will have to tell her yourself. I have learned not to bother.

Now the score samples (actually labeled examples on the link from BWV 91/Recordings). Close enough for government work (ACE), I guess.

I will forego comment on the colored arrows and associated text in Examples 1 to 3, except to remind you that a few weeks ago, I foolishly defended the right of Thomas Braatz (and anyone else) to publish such speculation, with proper identification as speculation. That is about the time that the s__t started to hit the fan (ACE). I should have realized, <give them an inch and they'll take a mile!> (ACE) For the international crowd, you might try <give them a cm and they'll take a km>. Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it. Suggestions?

I notice that several other BCML posters have taken serious umbrage (no ACE, just cool words) with the arrows and red notes. I believe that all of those posters are music professionals, active or retired. I apologize to them for any encouragement I may have unwittingly provided to this foolishness. I am not worried, they (MPs) are cool. They treat me like one of themselves, despite the fact that I can barely recall which end of the clarinet goes in my mouth (no ACE, basic hyperbole).

Onward to Example 4, where the phrase <various circulatio figures> remains untouched and without comment upon, despite my previous requests, and my uncharacteristic patience. This phrase may seem to be unobtrusive, especially in comparison to the colored arrows. Have a peek back, to refresh your memory, at the large green one and the heavy blue one (obscuring underlying notes). These, however, remain acceptable as speculation, regardless of how unattractive they may be. The circulatio phrase is another matter completely, despite its modest size. It is technically incorrect, and in need of revision or removal before archiving, for the following reasons:
(1) No figures are indicated, only musical notes.
(2) The word various implies several, or at least a minimum of two. At the very most, there can be one figure, perhaps with an inversion, in this string of alternating seconds. Or if I am wrong, show me where I am wrong, as I have previously requested.
(3) The word circulatio is not clear, and after much discussion between Alain and myself, he suggested that for purposes of this site, we use X-motif. That suggestion needs to be either accepted, or discussed further. It is arrogant, and rude to the efforts made by Alain, to simply ignore it.

As for the rudeness to me, I don't mind. Gives me an opportunity for a bit of wit. Most folks heed the el Polaco caution long before this stage, so I don't get much chance for fun.

The sad part is that all of the music examples could easily have been modified and corrected to professional standards before the end of the week devoted to BWV 91. The errors and exaggerations could have been chalked up (ACE, for attributed) to Jump Up frivolity. We could, as a group, have had a laugh and now be moving forward toward harmony. Note the careful phrasing, I did not suggest achieving harmony, simply moving toward it. At best, it is out there somewhere, like a light at the end of the tunnel (ACE) Now Jump Up is over, Advent has begun, and it is time to begin penance. Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming at you. (ACE). Game, set, match! (ACE) Game over! (ACE)

I was about to apologize for my lack of brevity. Then I had a glance back at some posts by others. Never mind.

Alain Bruguières wrote (December 4, 2006):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< (3) The word circulatio is not clear, and after much discussion between Alain and myself, he suggested that for purposes of this site, we use X-motif. That suggestion needs to be either accepted, or discussed further. It is arrogant, and rude to the efforts made by Alain, to simply ignore it. >
Well, as a matter of fact, I've had a look at the 'circulatios' Ed mentions. They are not exactly 'X-motifs' in the sense I defined. However they do fall within the more fuzzy notion of 'circulatio'. I personally do not object to Thomas' formulatio and do not feel offended in the least.

More interesting would be to discuss the meaning or absence thereof of these 'circulatios'.

PS As far as I'm concerned, ACE's do not help understand list messages any more than obscure antiquated latin terminology does. No offence meant!

Thomas Braatz wrote (December 6, 2006):
Definitions & additional score samples

Primary and secondary source materials regarding the following terms recently discussed are found readily
available on the BCW thanks to Aryeh Oron who has kindly set up a place for them:
<>
A corrected version of the first page of BWV 91/1 making all the notes visible is found at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Scores/BWV91-Sco.htm

Tom Dent wrote (December 7, 2006):
BWV 91/1 Score samples

Ed Myskowski wrote:

What does the green arrow (Ex.1) show, musically? The bits of music which it brushes past are six entries of the same subject, at the same pitch, in the oboes, violins and viola respectively (somewhat on the model of the violas of the 6th Brandenburg Concerto). It beats me how this could be a musical analogue of any sort of 'descent from heaven'.

Is this a case of being misled by the visual appearance of the score??

I notice that Bernhard added the following comment on 'Passus Durisculus':

'These progressions some have held as chromatic ones, the reasons for which they can fight out amongst themselves.'

The identity of the 'minor semitone' becomes clear in the music examples of Bernhard, as do the augmented second and diminished third.

The semitone was ambiguous, because most intervals were commonly referred to by their scale degree (unison/prime, second, third, fourth etc). Then the usual semitone mi-fa is a minor second, and a 'difficult' semitone such as f-f# would appear to be an 'augmented unison'. However, many objected to this usage because (they insisted) a unison, byits very nature, cannot be an interval between two different notes. One perfectly logical way out would be to designate an 'augmented prime'. However the usage 'prime' was uncommon. Instead the minor second was equated with a 'major semitone', and then by contrast came the 'minor semitone', which was only distinguished from the unison by the sharp, flat or natural signs.

There is one quite amusing passage in Telemann where he talks about the four different types of fourth: diminished, perfect, augmented (tritone) - and the newly introduced doubly-augmented fourth, for example C-F## resolving to B-G#.

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 7, 2006):
Tom Dent wrote:
< fourth: diminished, perfect, augmented (tritone) - and the newly introduced doubly-augmented fourth, >
I recall being in this neighborhood a week or so back, talking about Charlie Parker and the flatted-fifth in BeBop. Or did that refer to an empty whisky bottle?

Thomas Braatz wrote (December 7, 2006):
Tom Dent wrote:
>>What does the green arrow (Ex.1) show, musically? The bits of music which it brushes past are six entries of the same subject, at the same pitch, in the oboes, violins and viola respectively (somewhat on the model of the violas of the 6th Brandenburg Concerto). It beats me how this could be a musical analogue of any sort of 'descent from heaven'. Is this a case of being misled by the visual appearance of the score??<<
This is a powerful example of "Augenmusik" ('music for the eyes only') which in this given context of the chorale being emphasized both as melody and text directly points to this interpretation. The use of #'s at critical points in a mvt. where a religious connection to a 'cross' is being made is another very common use of this technique which Bach employed. Note that with "Augenmusik" the listener most likely will remain unaware of this aspect of Bach's compositional skill unless a full score is available.

Bradley Lehman wrote (December 7, 2006):
< This is a powerful example of "Augenmusik" ('music for the eyes only') >
Please explain who would have seen Bach's full score at all, or cared a whit about this, other than Bach himself and perhaps his deputy conductors/assistants. Is this alleged "Augenmusik" thingy in BWV 91 just some private bit of spiritual w[i]nking for their private edification, or was Bach really way ahead of Beethoven et al--in deliberately writing for unborn posterity to be amused by this type of activity?

Thomas Braatz wrote (December 7, 2006):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
>>Please explain who would have seen Bach's full score at all, or cared a whit about this, other than Bach himself and perhaps his deputy conductors/assistants. Is this alleged "Augenmusik" thingy in BWV 91 just
some private bit of spiritual w[i]nking for their private edification, or was Bach really way ahead of Beethoven et al--in deliberately writing for unborn posterity to be amused by this type of activity?<<
The fact that Bach did take such care with his scores even though he was under constant pressure to perform, compose, teach, rear a family, etc. demonstrates that he did care about these things. It is a fact that he was chanelling many ideas on different levels into his compositions and was not simply concerned with setting a text to a good melody with a light galant-style accompaniment in the manner of Telemann who composed his published cantatas to suit performers at small country churches as well as those in cities. Bach was able to make his sacred music work for him on various levels. He must have recognized his own superior abilities as a composer. With a different goal in mind, Bach could easily have composed cantata cycles for years and years as some other composers have. However, Bach seems to have set his goals much higher. Possibly he found great pleasure and satisfaction in solving the difficult problems he posed for himself musically in addition to those problems which were foisted upon him by his circumstances in Leipzig. There must always have been special thinkers, philosophers, scientists, etc. who saw beyond that which their colleagues did and took delight in additional complications, which, after they were solved, brought to them a very private sense of self-fulfillment, an extreme satisfaction which was unknown to almost every other person with they had contact. Perhaps Bach's religious beliefs fostered this type of self expression. In solving such problems, great satisfaction must have been its own reward.

Who would have noticed these different levels such as 'Augenmusik'? In addition to Bach and his prefects, we need to consider that some of these cantatas were exchanged/lent out to other cantors (most members of the extended Bach family). Certainly, his copyists, by now we know all the names of the most important ones, would have recognized these features. There may even have been instructional discussions about them. One thing is certain: some of his copyists, like Kuhnau (not the famous predecessor of Bach at Leipzig), even went as far as emulating Bach's handwriting and his monogram. The appearance of things on a title page (sometimes written out by the copyist) was very important to them or because Bach wanted to have it done in a certain way. A Bach monogram hidden inside a capital letter introducing the name of a cantata is just one example typical of Bach's way of looking at things and making whatever he touched dense with information or musical structure, often not immediately apparent, yet meaningful to the viewer once it has been discovered/uncovered/unriddled.

Alain Bruguières wrote (December 8, 2006):
[To Thomas Braatz] An interesting example of "Augenmusik" would be the /Crucigeros/ canon, see
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/crownofthorns.html
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/fourteencanonsgg.html

on Tim Smith's website. This is the 11^th of the 14 canons on the Goldberg ground; it appears in the form of a puzzle on a flyleaf, accompanied by the following inscription written by Bach: /Symbolum: Christus Coronabit Crucigeros,/ which translates, "Symbol: Christ will crown those who carry His cross."

If this inscription is truly by Bach himself, then we have direct evidence that Bach does carry special meaning beyond what we hear...:

Thomas Braatz wrote (December 8, 2006):
[To Alain Bruguières] Two similar canons appear as BWV 1087/11 and BWV 1077. It is very likely that BWV 1087/11 is the earlier version (the one connected to the bass line of the Goldberg Variations BWV 988. BWV 1077 is dated precisely: Oct. 15, 1747. It is the latter version as a dedication to Johann Gottfried Fulde who had performed under Bach's direction that the above-mentioned inscription appears with the musical notation entirely in Bach's own handwriting. Here it is part of a book containing many such dedications to Fulde. This Bach autograph was first