Cantata BWV 76
Die Himmel erzählen die Ehre Gottes
Discussions - Part 3
Continue from Part 2
Discussions in the Week of May 15, 2011
Ed Myskowski wrote (May 15, 2011):
Introduction to BWV 76 -- Die Himmel erzahlen die Ehre Gottes
Just a reminder:
This week we continue the Trinity season with BWV 76, the first of two works for Trinity 2.
Details of text, commentary, recordings, and previous discussion are accessible via: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV76.htm
The link to commentary by Julian [Mincham] is especially recommended as an introduction to listening.
The BWV 76 page also has convenient access to notes from the Gardiner and Koopman (by Christoph Wolff) CD issues, via links beneath the cover photos.
Many helpful links to scores and chorales have been posted recently. These are also available with a bit of ingenuity via the BWV 76 main page.
Douglas Cowling (May 15, 2011):
Introduction to BWV 76 -- Bach's Chorales & Hymns for Trinity 2
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< This week we continue the Trinity season with BWV 76, the first of two works for Trinity 2. >
THE MUSICAL CONTEXT OF BACH'S CANTATAS:
MOTETS AND CHORALES FOR THE SECOND SUNDAY AFTER TRINITY
* BACH'S HYMN BOOK:
Jürgen Grimm, "Das neu [?] Leipziger Gesangbuch des Gottfried Vopelius
Berlin: Merseburger, 1969.
ML 3168 G75
* BACH'S MOTET COLLECTION:
Otto Riemer, "Erhard Bodenschatz und sein Florilegium Portense"
ML 410 B67R4
NOTES for TRINITY 2:
* Anyone have biographical details for M. Mart Roth? Or a source for the text (not in Vulgate)
* The general hymns include "Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern" and "Wachet auf ruft uns die Stimme," both of which Bach used for famous cantatas on other Sundays. It would appear that Bach's free use of chorale tunes mirrors the rather general groupings of his hymn book.
1) MOTETS for Introit, Before Sermon at mass and vespers for Choir II, and During Communion:
i) "in Domino Gaudet" (8 voices) - M. Mart Roth (?)
ii) "Venite ad me" (8 voices) - Vincentius Bertholusius (1550-1608)
Text: Matthew 11:28-30
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my
burden is light.
Sample: "Ego Flos Campi" - V. Bertholusius
2) HYMN OF DAY (de tempore)
"Ich ruf zu dir Herr Jesu Christ"
3) CHORALES for Pulpit and Communion Hymns:
"Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern"
"Ach Gott vom Himmel sieh darein [used in BWV 2 also for Trinity 2]
"Wachet auf ruft uns die Stimme"
"Es spricht den Unwissened Mund wohl"
William Hoffman wrote (May 18, 2011):
BWV 76 -- Bach’s Trinity Time Work Schedule
The beginning of the Trinity Time of the Church Year was an important period for Johann Sebastian Bach as he pursued his calling as director of Leipzig's church music and the St. Thomas Church School. Charged with overseeing the presentation of vocal pieces at the main services on some 60 Sundays and feast days, Bach commenced his tenure with performances of his own compositions in annual cantata cycles. He began his first church year, on Sunday, May 30, 1723, with his official installation and the performance of his festive two-part Cantata BWV 75, "Die Elenden sollen essen, daß sie satt werden" (The wretched shall eat so that they are satisfied).
There followed Bach's pursuit of his goal of a "well-regulated church music to the glory of God." In the first two years, without interruption, he presented cantatas on virtually every occasion. The production of these works was an elaborate and demanding process: secure a "musical sermon" text addressing the designated Gospel readings, usually including congregational hymns (chorales), with all necessary preparation, including composition of the score and parts set with rehearsal a day prior to performance.
Coincidentally, Bach began his work on the First Sunday after the Trinity Sunday Festival, which closed the first half, or <de tempore> of the Church Year and initiated the second half of the year, <omnes tempore> or Traditional Time. This also was the beginning of the St. Thomas Church School Year, which required much of Bach's time and energies. Given his primary responsibility as a teacher, he composed with great ambition, deliberation, intention, and efficiency while facing the challenges of acceptable libretti texts, competent musicians and singers, and limited resources.
As Bach proceeded, the emerging historical performance record suggests that the beginning of each succeeding Trinity Time was a bell-weather or bench-mark for changes in cantata forms and text writers, leading to revision and reconstitution of the three extant church-service cantata cycles and eventual cessation of weekly cantata composition in favor of large-scale Passions, Mass segments, and feast-day oratorios as well as collections of church service songs and organ chorale preludes to complete his grand design.
First Cycle: Heterogeneous Forms & Expansions
Wherever possible in the first year, Bach utilized, adapted and often expanded existing compositions, meeting some one-third of his 60 service needs. Initially, Bach planned music both before and after the sermon, either two-part cantatas or two shorter cantatas. Bach - and his musicians - were able to sustain this pace only for the first seven weeks of the Trinity Time, with two exceptions. Within a period of nine days, From June 24 to July 2, Bach provided compositions for the two feast days, respectively, of John the Baptist, with Cantata BWV 167, "Ihr Menschen rühmet Gottes Liebe" (Ye men, extol God's love) and the Visitation of Mary (the mother of Jesus), with Cantata BWV 147 "Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben" (Heart and mouth and deed and life).
While these two feasts fell on different days during the week (except when one of the feasts fell coincidentally on a Sunday every seven years) Bach apparently omitted presenting new cantatas on the succeeding Sundays, the Fifth and Sixth after Trinity, June 27 and July 4, respectively. Meanwhile, he was able to expand and perform works composed previously in Weimar for the Third, Fourth, and Seventh Sundays After Trinity as well as Cantata BWV 147, originally composed for the Fourth Sunday in Advent, now serendipitously adapted for the Marian Festival. It can only be conjectured that Bach chose the two feast days for compositions instead of the two Trinity Sundays because of their festive nature and because he previously had been unable to compose feast day cantatas in Weimar, limited to new compositions every fourth Sunday between 1714 and 1716.
Cycle 1 (1723
05/30 Trinity +1 BWV 75 Die Elenden sollen essen, daß sie satt werden(*)
06/06 Trinity +2 BWV 76 Die Himmel erzählen die Ehre Gottes(*)
06/13 Trinity +3 BWV 21 Ich hatte viel Bekümmernis(*)
06/20 Trinity +4 BWV 185 185 Barmherziges Herze der ewigen Liebe
BWV 24 Ein ungefärbt Gemüte
06/24 John Fest BWV 167 Die Menschen rühmet Gottes Liebe
06/27 Trinity +5 (no performance recorded)
07/02 Visit. Fest BWV 147 Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben(*)
07/04 Trinity +6 (no performance recorded)
07/11 Trinity +7 BWV 186 Agre dich, O Seele, nicht (*)
Second Cycle: Chorale Cantatas, Others & Repeat Works
Immediately following the completion of the heterogeneous first cantata cycle on Trinity Sunday, June 4, 1724, Bach commenced a most-ambitious homogeneous second cycle of original chorale cantatas having elaborate opening choruses with succeeding arias and recitatives paraphrasing the remaining hymn stanzas. On June 11, he began with a twopart Cantata, BWV 20, "O Ewigkeit, du Donnerwort I" (O Eternity, thou thunder-word) with the opening chorus set as a French Overture, slow <grave> and fugue. From then on, Bach limited himself to one-part, single cantata presentations at each service and, serendipitously, the Feast of the Visitation and the Fourth Sunday after Trinity fell on the same day, July 2, and he was able to present a festive Marian setting of the German Magnificat, Cantata BWV 10, <Meine Seele erhebt den Herren> (My soul doth magnify the Lord). Still pacing himself, Bach composed no work for the Sixth Sunday After Trinity (July 16) but eventually did fill the gap with pure-verse chorale Cantata BWV 9, "Es ist das Heil uns kommen her" (It is the salvation to us come hither; composed in 1734-35). Bach also composed a cantata in 1732 to fill the gap in the Fourth Sunday after Trinity, with BWV 177, "Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ" (I cry to thee, Lord Jesus Christ), using the chorale-paraphrased text set in 1724 by the still unknown poet of these chorale cantatas.
Cycle 2 (1724)
06/11 Trinity +1 BWV 20, O Ewigkeit, du Donnerwort I
06/18 Trinity +2 BWV 2 Ach Gott, vom Himmel sieh darein
06/24 John Fest BWV 7 Christ unser Herr zum Jordan kam
06/25 Trinity +3 BWV 135 Ach Herr, mich armen Sünder
07/02 Visit./Tr.+4 BWV 10, Meine Seele erhebt den Herren
[Trinity +4 BWV 177 Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ, 1732]
07/09 Trinity +5 BWV 93 Wer nur den lieben Gott Läßt walten
07/16 Trinity +6 [BWV 9, Es ist dad Heil uns kommen her, 1734-35]
07/23 Trinity +7 107, War willst du dich betrüben
Bach produced 44 chorale cantatas for virtually all services in the second cycle until the 1725 closing Easter season. Then he relinquished the form, due perhaps to the lack of texts and appropriate chorales, as well as restrictions of composing in one very limiting format that often failed to address the day's Gospel. Again, Bach completed a second cycle on the Trinity Sunday Festival, May 27, 1725, with Cantata BWV 176, "Es ist ein trotzig and verzagt Ding" (It is a proud and weak thing). Without respite, Bach had presented cantatas for virtually all services for almost two years, as well as <the St. John Passion> twice on Good Fridays.
As Bach completed the 13 non-chorale cantatas for the 1725 Easter season, he sought uniform texts for future cantata cycles as he developed a strategy or plan for providing future service music. Flexibility became the standard, mixing new compositions, including the monumental St. Matthew Passion> of 1727, when he desired and was able, with works of cousin Johann Ludwig Bach and colleague Georg Philipp Telemann.
For the last half of 1725, in all likelihood Sebastian took a postman's holiday while he evolved a new, more flexible and diverse compositional strategy allowing him to return to instrumental composition and performance as well as other creative pursuits. He continued his policy of overseeing service music presentations during the beginning of the 1725 Trinity Time. He apparently repeated in abbreviated forms his first two initial two-part cantatas, BWV 75 and 76, on the first two Sundays of Trinity, then relinquished the reigns to his second in command, Georg Balthasar Schott, music director of the progressive Leipzig New Church. According to a surviving cantata libretto book, from the Third to the Sixth Sundays after Trinity and the Feast of the Visitation of Mary, between June 17 and July 8, a chorale setting, three Telemann Cantatas and a German Magnificat respectively were presented in the two main Leipzig churches, St. Thomas and St. Nikolaus.
Schott had presented Telemann service cantatas at the New Church and had an able assistant and Bach student in Christoph Gottlieb Frober. The young Frober, a Leipzig University law student, may have composed a cantata for the Feast of St. John to the Neumeister text, "Ich ruft zu dir, herr Jesu." Eventually the cantata was performed as a test piece on the Feast of Annunciation, March 25, 1729, when Frober unsuccessfully sought to replace Schott, who moved to Gotha to be assistant Kapellmeister to Gottfried Heinrich Stözel. Karl Gotthelf Gerlach was chosen for the New Church post and relinquished his directorship of the Leipzig Collegium musicum to Bach
Pre-Cycle 3 (1725)
06/03 Trinity +1 ?BWV 75a(2) Was hilft des Purpurs Majestät
06/10 Trinity +2 ? 76a(II/9) Gott segne noch die treure Scharr
06/17 Trinity +3 Ich ruft zu dir, herr Jesu Christ (chorale) [cf. BWV 177, chorale cantata, 1732 Tr.+4]
06/24 John/Tr.+4 TVWV 1:596 Gelobet sei der Herr, der Gott Israel
07/01 Trinity +5 TVWV 1:310 Der Segen des Herrn machet reich ohne Muhe
07/02 Visit. Fest ?BWV Anh. 21 (G.M. Hoffmann) "Meine Seel erhebt den Heern,"
07/08 Trinity +6 TVWV 1:1600 Wer sich rachet, an dem wird sich der Herr wider rachen
For the remained of 1725 only a few Bach cantata performances have been identified: premieres of two festive works with chorus, chorale Cantata 137 (per omnes versus) on the 12th Sunday After Trinity and Cantata 79 for the Reformation Festival, October 31; and possible reperformances of Weimar Cantata BWV Anh. 209 (text only, music lost) on the Seventh Sunday After Trinity, July 15; Cantata 168 on the Ninth Sunday After Trinity, July 29; Cantata 164 on the 13th Sunday After Trinity, August 26; possible repeat of Leipzig Cycle 1 Cantata 148, 17th Sunday After Trinity, September 23, that is another festive work based on a Picander poem that might have done double duty for the important Feast of St. Michael, six days later on September 29, during the Leipzig Fall Fair. In addition Bach presented the now =-lost, festive Town Council Cantata BWV Anh. 4, Wünschet Jerusalem Glück," on August 27, according to a recently-found cantata text booklet
Third Cycle: Mixed Cycles with Others' Works
The late and noted Bach authority, Alfred Dürr, considered Bach third Leipzig cantata cycle to be "a <mixtum compositum> of two cycles (or even three if we take account of the [non-chorale] cantatas borrowed from Cycle II)" (<Cantatas of JSB: 36). The record of Bach performances suggests that Bach officially began his third cycle on the First Sunday in Advent, December 2, 1725, possibly with an early version of the cantata parody, "Schwingt freudig euch empor": (Swing yourself joyfully upward) BWV 36c, initially composed to a Picander text the previous April 5 for the birthday of a Leipzig University student.
The heterogeneous and incomplete third cycle involves almost entirely older cantata texts: the bulk - 25 -- constituting a church year cycle of libretti originating in Rudolstadt in 1704 and republished in 1726, attributed to Duke Ernst Ludwig of Saxe Meiningen or Thuringian poet and theologian Christoph Helm. Eighteen service texts for Epiphany-Purification, Easter and Trinity seasons are found in mostly two-part cantatas of Johann Ludwig Bach (JLB 1-17, and JLB 21), with Bach setting seven texts for cantatas for Ascension Day and the remainder for Trinity Time: BWV 43, 39, 88, 187, 45, 102, and 17.
Bach presented 26 of his own cantatas from various other sources. Eleven of these cantatas were possibly settings of hybrid older text sources assembled by Picander for BWV 146, 19 (St. Michael=Trinity +15), 27, 169, 56, 49, 98, 55, 52, 82, 158, with eight (BWV 19-82) for the later Trinity Time, possibly compiled for two church-service libretto books.
Six Bach cantatas for Christmas-Epiphany and two for Trinity Time (BWV 110, 57, 151, 16, 32, 13, 170, and 35) use 1711 texts of Darmstadt Court poet Georg Christian Lehms. Three Bach cantatas use texts from Erdmann Neumeister (BWV 28), Salomo Franck (BWV 72) and Johann Friedrich Helbig (BWV 47), for the Sunday after Christmas, Epiphany +3 and Trinity +17, respectively. Bach also began repeating other cantatas: BWV 194b (abridged) and BWV 129 for Trinity Sundays 1726 and 1727 respectively, and for the three day Pentecost Festival BWV 34 (new parody, possibly by Picander), and Köthen serenade parodies BWV 173 and 184.
Eight services in 1726 for which no music has been found but possible texts exist include Lehms for the Feast of Epiphany and Rudolstadt texts for the of the Annunciation of Mary, Easter +5 and +6 and the early Trinity Times below: Trinity +2, +3, +4, as well as Trinity +9, and Reformation Day. No music has ever been found.
Cycle 3 (1726)
06/23 Trinity +1 BWV 39 Brich dem Hungrigen dein Brot
06/24 John Fest JLB 17 Siehe, ich will meinen Engel senden
06-30 Trinity +2 Rudolstadt, Und der Herr Zebaoth wird allen Völkern
07/02 Visit. Fest JLB 13 "Der Herr wird ein Neues im Lande."
07/07 Trinity +3 Rudolstadt Wo sich aber der Gottlose bekehret
07/14 Trinity +4 Rudolstadt Ich tue Barmherzeges an viel Tausend
07/21 Trinity +5 BWV 88 Siehe, ich will viel Fischer aussenden
07/28 Trinity +6 BWV 170 Vergnugte Ruh, beliebte Seelenlust (Lehms)
JLB 7 Ich will meinen Geist in euch geben
In early 1727 Bach appears to have composed selectively cantatas to fill important gaps in the third cycle: BWV 58 for the less-frequent Sunday After New Year; the concise solo Cantata BWV 82 for the Feast of Purification, February 2, probably on a double bill with a repeat of solo Cantata BWV 83 from Purification 1724, or Cantata BWV 157, which six days later was performed as a funeral work on February 6; and for pre-Lenten Septuagesima Sunday, BWV 84. Picander probably wrote the new texts in collaboration with Bach as he had with the concurrent composition of the <St. Matthew Passion>.
The most detailed account of Bach's third cantata cycle is Konrad Küster's "Die Frankfurter und Leipziger Überlieferung (Sources) der Kantaten Johann Ludwig Bach, <Bach Jahrbuch 1989>, pp. 65-105. Küster in Section II-7, "Leipzig Individual Preservation: Consequences for the Chronology of the Leipzig Cantata Performances," suggests that Bach utilized his cousin's cantatas in the third cycle to accommodate the pursuit of keyboard partitas, publishing the first collection of ClavierÜbung at the Fall Leipzig Fair in late September 1726. In particular, for the months of July and September during Trinity Time, Bach appears to have alternated performances of his works and cousin Johann Ludwig's cantatas, says Küster.
Post-Third Cycle: Completing the Great Plan
At the beginning of 1727, according to the record, Bach drastically curtailed cantata composition and presentation, probably to focus his energies on completing the first version of the <St. Matthew Passion>. Subsequently, Bach turned his attention to the Saxon Court of August the Strong at Dresden, presenting his first secular drammi per musica, for the royal birthday on May 12, BWV Anh. 12 (now lost). Meanwhile, in the coming year, Picander compiled his texts and printed an annual cycle of cantatas for Bach. Curiously, the cycle was published in late June 1728, early in the Trinity Time, beginning with the Feast of St. John on June 27, 1728. The incipts or titles of the first three Picander settings are well-known Lutheran canticles and chorale settings:
1. <Gelobet sei der Herr, der Gott Israel" (Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, Luke 1:68) is the beginning of Zechariah's Prophecy andis one of three New Testament Lucan psalms. Two years previous, on the same Feast of St. John the Baptist, the Telemann setting of Neumeister's treatment of the Gospel text, same incipit, was presented in Leipzig, during the so-called Bach pre-Third Cycle, the Trinity Time of the last half of the 1725 Church Year.
2. The other two Lucan psalms are Mary's <Magnificat anima mea> (Meine Seele erhebt den Herrn, My soul doth magnify the Lord), Luke 1:46-55 for the Marian Feast of the Visitation, July 2; and Simeon's Song of Praise or Prophecy, the < Nunc dimittis servum tuum, Domine, secundum verbum tuum in pace> (Now let your servant, Lord, go, according to thy word, in Peace; Herr, nun lässest du deinen Diener in Frieden fahren), Luke 2:29-32, the Gospel text for the Marian Feast of the Purification, February 2.
3. "In allen meinen Taten" (In all my deeds), Paul Flemming's nine-verse general and wedding chorale, with its associated melody found only in Bach's free-standing plain chorale, BWV 366, which Picander designated as the closing chorale for the fifth movement, using the final stanza, "So sei nun, Seele, deine" (Therefore, my soul, be true to yourself). In 1734, Bach set the entire Flemming text with different melody as pure-hymn chorale Cantata BWV 97 for an undesignated purpose.
Cycle 4 (1728 and 1729, Picander)
06/24/28 John Fest P46 Gelobet sei der Herr, der Gott Israel
06/25/28 Trinity +5 P47, In allen meinen Taten
07/02/28 Visit. Fest P48, Meine Seele erhebt den Herrn
07/04/28 Trinity +6 P49, Gott, gib mir ein versöhnlich
06/19/29 Trinity +1 P42 Welt, der Purpur stinkt mich an
06/26/29 John/Tr. +2 P42 Kommt, eilet, ihr Gaste
07/02/29 Visitation (see P48, 7/2/28)
07/03/29 Trinity +3 P44 Wohin, mein Herz?
07/10/29 Trinity +45 P45 Lass sie spotten, lass sie lachen
During the next year, Bach set Picander's cycle to just nine cantatas that summarize his cantata art, fill service gaps and celebrate feast days: St. Michaels's Feast (BWV 149), Trinity +21 (BWV 188), Christmas Day (BWV 197a), New Year's Day (BWV 171), Epiphany +3 (BWV 156), Quinquagesima Estomihi (BWV 159), Easter Monday (BWV Anh. 190), Easter Tuesday (BWV 145), and finally, Pentecost Monday (June 6, 1729; BWV 174), probably with the assistance of the Leipzig Collegium musicum, which Bach took over from Karl Gotthelf Gerlach, who assumed the New Church's cantor's position. In exactly seven years, Bach had achieved his primary goal, his great plan, for church pieces for all the main services.
To Come (Eventually): Trinity Time Themes, Teachings and Chorales
Douglas Cowling (May 18, 2011):
William Hoffman wrote:
< 06/19/29 Trinity +1 P42 Welt, der Purpur stinkt mich an >
Now there's a text for a cantata!
Kim Patrick Clow (May 18, 2011):
*Schott had presented Telemann service cantatas at the New Church and had an able assistant and Bach student in Christoph Gottlieb Frober. The young Frober, a Leipzig University law student, may have composed a cantata for the Feast of St. John to the Neumeister text, "Ich ruft zu dir, herr Jesu." Eventually the cantata was performed as a test piece on the Feast of Annunciation, March 25, 1729, when Frober unsuccessfully sought to replace Schott, who moved to Gotha to be assistant Kapellmeister to Gottfried Heinrich Stözel. Karl Gotthelf Gerlach was chosen for the New Church post and relinquished his directorship of the Leipzig Collegium musicum to Bach.*
Does any music of Schott survive at all? I'm surprised that Stoelzel had an asst. in Gotha, but I shouldn't be-- considering the amazing pace of compositions he kept for nearly 25 years. I'm guessing if Schott's music survives, it wouldn't be Gotha since so little survives (out of circa 1000 compositions, only 10 pieces of Stoelzel survived).
And thanks for a wonderful article Will, you postings are just stunning in the detail and quality of research.
Ed Myskowski wrote (May 21, 2011):
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
< Does any music of Schott survive at all? I'm surprised that Stoelzel had an asst. in Gotha, but I shouldn't be-- considering the amazing pace of compositions he kept for nearly 25 years. >
Aha! The plot thickens. All those putative lost works of Stoelzel may in fact have been mostly the works of the Stoelzel music factory?
I do agree that that the surviving works are quite fine, whatever the composing forces may have been.
Somehow, this seems an opportune moment to remind everyone that Gluck has his bust in the eaves of the Methuen Memorial Music hall, along with Bach, Beethoven, Handel, Haydn, Mendelssohn, Mozart, and Schubert (in alphabetical order).
Perhaps we could just do a quick substitution of Stoelzel (at the end of the list) for Gluck?
Easier yet, perhaps I could just point to the bust of Gluck and tell folks that it is Stoelzel?
Ed Myskowski wrote (May 21, 2011):
William Hoffman wrote:
<< 06/19/29 Trinity +1 P42 Welt, der Purpur stinkt mich an >>
Douglas Cowling wrote: <email@example.com>
< Now there's a text for a cantata! >
American English translation requested (although I think I catch the drift).
On my block there is great discussion of thRapture, endtimes sooncome.
(1) The motto of Looney Tunes recycled music has long been <World ends soon! Buy records now!>
(2) A friend asked his 87 year old mother what she would recommend in preparation.
<Make sure you are wearing clean underwear.> Perhaps that is only funny in USA?
William Hoffman wrote (May 22, 2011):
BWV 76 – Bach’s Trinity Time: Purple
PART ONE: Four (Gospel) Parables
* Trinity 1: Luke 16: 19-31- Parable of Dives and Lazarus
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen,
and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named
Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Pre-Cycle 3 (1725)
06/03 Trinity +1 ??BWV 75a(2), bass recitative, 2
Was hilft des Purpurs Majestät,
What use are royal robes [lit.purple]
Da sie vergeht?
since they pass away
Cycle 4 (1729) Picander text
06/19/29 Trinity +1 P42 Welt, der Purpur stinkt mich an (World, thy purple robe stinks on me)
William Hoffman wrote (May 22, 2011):
BWV 76 – Bach’s Trinity Time: Stoezel & Gluck
[To Ed Myskowski] Actually, the young Gluck came to Leipzig in 1747 as part of the annual summer visit of the visiting Mingotti Italian opera troupe, where he was a traveling conductor (on the podium, not in the caboose). Surely, he must have met Sebastian. Now, imagine their conversation at Zimmermann's Coffee House, von Ziegler's salon, or the outdoor pool behind Zimmermann's, decked out in purple robes.
Ed Myskowski wrote (May 22, 2011):
William Hoffman wrote:
< Cycle 4 (1729) Picander text
06/19/29 Trinity +1 P42 Welt, der Purpur stinkt mich an (World, thy purple robe stinks on me) >
Ed Myskowski wrote (May 22, 2011):
William Hoffman wrote:
< Actually, the young Gluck came to Leipzig in 1747 as part of the annual summer visit of the visiting Mingotti Italian opera troupe, where he was a traveling conductor (on the podium, not in the caboose). Surely, he must have met Sebastian. >
Thanks for pointing out the chronology, and the possibility that JSB and Gluck met in Leipzig.
Peter Smaill wrote (May 22, 2011):
[To William Hoffman] Interesting post; for Gluck famously came to London and knew Handel, who in turn commented after hearing Gluck's " La Caduta dei Giganti" that " Gluck knows no more about counterpoint than my cook". I wonder what Bach's comments would have been!
Kim Patrick Clow (May 22, 2011):
Peter Smaill wrote:
< Interesting post; for Gluck famously came to London and knew Handel, who in turn commented after hearing Gluck's " La Caduta dei Giganti" that " Gluck knows no more about counterpoint than my cook". I wonder what Bach's comments would have been! >
No doubt the same: because music had really changed significantly in their lifetimes. Handel also ranted about Karl Abel's music too (for it's simplicity). Hertel and Telemann were engaged in a bit of a debate about the evolution of music as late 1765, and Hertel specifically referred to the "modern music" of his peers as more sophisticated and evolved than what had been written earlier. Telemann had written a large scale Ouverture in D major as late as 1765, and that form essentially had been dead for decades.
Cantata BWV 76: Details & Complete Recordings | Recordings of Individual Movements | Discussions: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3