Cantata BWV 62 - Discussions

Cantata BWV 62
Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland [II]
Discussions - Part 4

Continue from Part 3

Discussions in the Week of November 19, 2006 [Continue]

Stephen Benson wrote (November 26, 2006):
BWV 62 ----contrasting characters--response

Julian Mincham wrote:

Guilty as charged. At this point, I'm not sure whether the first or second suggested cause was at the root of my response. It might be that there were things I wanted to say so I just ignored the context and plunged on heedlessly, and then again, maybe I just totally missed the context altogether. More likely it was a combination of the two, my determination to say what I had to say clouding my critical judgment. For whatever reason I flubbed it, and I humbly apologize.

< It may be that what you hear is exactly what Bach wanted you to hear, no more and no less---we shall never know. It may also be that those with a more subtle instinct may hear something more complex--and we don't know if Bach would have intended that either. But, as I have said, it appears that some people do detect these complexities which is where the discussion began. >
Ouch! However, I don't think I ever said that I couldn't hear other characteristics in the music nor did I challenge the possibility of alternative readings. (Oops! I did say just that, didn't I? [From 11/22 — "I, personally, continue to hear in this movement nothing more than pure and unadulterated joy."] I guess I'm forced to concede that what I first considered a cheap shot was neither unjustified nor undeserved.)

If you would be so kind as to give me an opportunity to extricate myself from the hole I have dug for myself — the phrase "nothing more" really is a killer, isn't it? — I would like to say that my clumsily worded assertion does not at all accurately represent my thinking on the matter. Probably the simplest and most direct way to correct that distortion would be to have added the qualifying phrase, "When I listen to the Gardiner... [5]"

I was not, in fact, attracted to the Gardiner interpretation [5] because I could not hear the "complexities" of which you speak. I was attracted to the Gardiner recording because, and I quote from my November 21 post, it displays "an incisive energy and an irresistible and infectious buoyancy" and "it brings me great joy and makes me feel good". Maybe at some point in the future, I will decide this performance is only a cheap thrill and I will put it aside. I doubt it. I believe it is one perfectly valid, and extremely rewarding, reading of the score. But so is the Herreweghe [6], and I will be returning to that often, as well. They both provide their own distinctive kind of satisfaction. Our listening choices are dictated by what we want to hear at the moment.

When one does compare Gardiner [5] to Herreweghe [6] (and I'm arbitrarily limiting my comparison to those two recordings since they present such a clearcut opposition of styles), substantive differences are clear, differences that can be traced to the balance, or imbalance, you described between forceful energy and what you called "wistfulness". The respective aesthetic choices of these two conductors result in diametrically opposed listening experiences — two almost entirely different pieces of music. And it is fascinating that the same score can generate that kind of diversity!

Those aesthetic choices do raise a question about the nature of the "complexity" to which you refer. I assume (and, yes, I realize that making assumptions of any sort on this list is a risky business!) that Gardiner [5] and Herreweghe [6] made conscious decisions how to treat the first two measures of the opening chorus. Let us assume, once again, that Gardiner, or any other conductor opting for this interpretative style, decided to utilize tempo and articulation to complement and support the energy of the following idea. And let us assume as well, for purposes of discussion, that Herreweghe and like- minded conductors decided to utilize a different tempo and articulation to emphasize the contrast between the two ideas. They both looked at the same motif and made decisions to treat it in different ways. Is complementarity, which by its very nature frequently comes across as "simpler", inherently any less complex than contrast, or is it just different means to a different end?

Again, I apologize for my previous obtuseness.

Stephen Benson wrote (November 26, 2006):
Formatting issues resulted in some impenetrable syntax in my previous post on this thread. Dashes simply failed to appear in several places. The only solution seems to be to use multiple hyphens.Please note the following corrections:
(1) A dash should have followed the phrase "From 11/22..."
(2) The phrase "the phrase 'nothing more' is really a killer isn't it?" should have been set off by dashes
(3) The second sentence in the second paragraph from the end should have read: "The respective aesthetic choices of these two conductors result in diametrically opposed listening experiences -- two almost entirely different pieces of music."
My apologies, once again.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 26, 2006):
Stephen Benson wrote:
< I was attracted to the Gardiner recording [5] because, and I quote from my November 21 post, it displays "an incisive energy and an irresistible and infectious buoyancy" and "it brings me great joy and makes me feel good". Maybe at some point in the future, I will decide this performance is only a cheap thrill and I will put it aside. I doubt it. >
Compliments on the rare, gentlemanly post! I also doubt you will put aside the Gardiner [5]. I have not heard this particular one (BWV 62), but the few others that I have heard convince me I am eventually going to need the whole series. Don't tell my wife yet.

Alain Bruguières wrote (November 27, 2006):
I've just read the analysis of the 4^th fugue of the WTC on Tim Smith's website: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/wtc/i04.html#movie and he remarks that the theme of the fugue derives from 'Nun komm der Heiden Heiland'. So I haven't been the first one to suggest the connection!

I hope in time we will be able to sort out the X-motif issue so that we can decide whether its significance as a symbol in Bach's works reaches the same level of certainty as ascending or descending motions...

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 27, 2006):
Alain Bruguières wrote:
< I hope in time we will be able to sort out the X-motif issue so that we can decide whether its significance as a symbol in Bach's works reaches the same level of certainty as ascending or descending motions... >
Yeah, me too! Glad we got there. Almost as much fun as the <frog stoup>. Apologies to the rest of BCML, inside joke between me and Alain.

Actually, we did a bit of that on-list, maybe it can be tracked? Geez, I hope not. As I recall, M. Joly took a bit of offense over the misunderstanding, but we sorted that out as well.

Bonsoir, mon ami (good evening, my friend)!

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 27, 2006):
X-motif [was Re: Introduction to BWV 62 - 4th fugue of the WTC]

Continued from [BWV 159 concert], and

Alain Bruguières wrote:
<< I hope in time we will be able to sort out the X-motif issue so that we can decide whether its significance as a symbol in Bach's works reaches the same level of certainty as ascending or descending motions... >>
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< Yeah, me too! Glad we got there. >
BWV 159, it turns out, is an opportunity to delve into this topic, as soon as the Grad Student turns up. Don't count on Ulysses.

I had a look at the P&V score on BCW last night when I got home, as I heard the Kreuz theme in thetext, loud and clear.

A quick look. There is a single Kreuz in BWV 159/1, in the B arioso, no turn anywhere in sight.

In BWV 159/2 there is a repeated text Am Kreuz will ich dich noch umfangen (I will still embrace You on the Cross [tr. Dellal]) in the A voice. No turn on Kreuz, but a stretched turn on will ich dich noch. Two times.

So a total of three (!) Kreuz in Mvt 1 and 2. Two with a turn, in the A voice, one without, in the B.

Here comes some unsupported, but not totally wild conjecture:

The two occurrences in the A voice, with turn, represent the Father and Geist, still in Heaven. The single occurrence in the B voice, without turn represents the Son, preparing his Cross. The astute reader will notice how conveniently this agrees with the standard correlation of A=Geist, B=Jesus, etc.

In BWV 159/1&2, I can quickly spot six or more turn figures not associated with Kreuz. Exactly how many depends on exactly how much stretch is acceptable between a turn and a circulatio.

That is enough for tonight. I think we all agree this is worth pursuing. I think you can see that, despite my puckish sense of humor, I am interested. So interested, I insist we get the basics straight before wandering down some cup and cross strewn dead end.

And this is not a joke. So interested, I think it is a project worthy of a graduate student in search of a degree.

You may have noticed Chris Rowson's post, re the flute theme we have alluded to many times over the past few months. Turns out it was such a good idea, someone was already doing it.

I meant to put this at the beginning. Actually, I guess I did, I put it in the subject line. I support the X-motif terminology. I suggest we make that standard, unless there is something out there already, which is appropriate.

Next, start to work on agreed definitions of circulatio and turn.

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 27, 2006):
Pal Domokos wrote:
< I listened to the opening chorus of BWV 62 with Leusink [7] again and you're right, sometimes Buwalda dominates the scene. On the other hand, his voice doesn't irritate me, and he certainly can sing (he sings the choral in BWV 13 nicely). >
It is good to see a new voice on the recording comment threads, especially one who doesn't start out hating Buwalda. He doesn't irritate me very often, either. But not never.


If it doesn't scare you, why should it scare him? I guess that is a little naive, and early childhood educators will jump all over me.

How about this. Remember back to your earliest memory. Do you think it would have scared you then?

I just wrote at some length on a live performance of BWV 159, which has some scary moments, what with carrying your own cross to your crucifixion, and stuff. If that isn't scary, what is? There was an infant in a tote bag (or whatever you call those things, it has been a long time for me) at the concert. He looked fine. No screaming, etc.

My opinion? When in doubt, go for it! On the other hand, look where that attitude got me. Writing notes on a computer.

I was so distracted by the concert, the evolving X-motif thread, and other stuff, that I hardly noticed who said what about the recordings. I was just happy to see that it was getting done, and I pretty much agreed with
everything I read..

I did notice Suzuki [9] absent, I believe. My advice is brief, and I think I already said it briefly somewhere back there. If full price CDs are on you menu, get this one. The SACD sound is bright and detailed, the couplings are convenient. If you have heard Robin Blaze, you will want it for that reason alone. If you haven't yet heard Robin Blaze, this is as good a place to start as any.

On to X-mas!

Julian Mincham wrote (November 27, 2006):
BWV 62 ----contrasting characters--again

[To Stephen Benson] a fulsome apology received in the same spirit in which it was offered.

In reflection, your first posting may have done me a favour in that it pointed out an issue of possible confusion. I certainly did not want to give the impression that one MUST hear what I suggest is there in the music. On the contrary, my approach is to suggest that we might try to articulate what we hear in the first instance and then try to determine the technical ways in which the composer achieved such effects. Each person will do this in their own way. My comments, related to the movement from which Ed raised his original question were intended only as personal examples of what I heard myself and from which I considered Bach's intentions might have been.

And of course your later posting makes an excellent point in that the performer/director's approach to the piece may be very different and can be a strong determining factor in what we take from the music itself. It is, of course the nature of interpretation However, It reminds me of a little trick I have often played on first year undergraduate music students (often a rather conservative bunch with preconceptions that really do need to be challenged)

I would set them an exercis eof musical criticism in which they were to hear 2 performances (from record) and write down all the differences in the two interpretations they perceived. I then played two versions of the same Baroque piece--one a 1950s slow, bombastic, heavy approach--big string groups, no harpsichord and turgig rhythms and articulations. The second was a much more bouyant recording by someone like Roy Goodman and the Brandenburg Consort. I simply muddied the waters a little by starting each performance at a different place in the score.

Amazingly (and remember that these were music students not members of Joe public) there were always several of them who did not realise that they were listening to the same piece of music so much did the vastly different interpretations alter their perception of it! A good, example I think, of what you expressed in your posting.

Which is also why it is good that a number of colleagues on list clearly manage to hear various performances of the cantatas thereby not getting stuck in a groove. I probably spend as much time reading the scores as listening to performances which also helps in maintaining a perspective.

Pal Domokos wrote (November 28, 2006):
[To Ed Myskowski] Thanks for all the info and advice, Ed. I'll leave BWV 62/1 on the list for my little nephew.

I read your report on the performance of BWV 159. It took me some time to get used to Frank Kelly's voice but I like it now. In fact, the more I listen to Rifkin's recordings the more I like them. I don't know what this means.

On Suzuki [9]: I have a couple of CD's from him and I love them all. Blaze is indeed a very good counter-tenor. At the moment, I'm listening to his new CD with Carolyn Sampson, singing duets from Handel oratorios. Very nicely, of course. I can't help feeling though that his technique and timbre suit Handel's/Purcell's music more than Bach's. But it may be a question of language: he sounds more convincing when singing in English. (I have the same feeling about Chance.)

Anyway, in January I'll hear Blaze live (singing Handel - he knows something).

Ed Myskowski wrote (November 28, 2006):
Pal Domokos wrote:
< I read your report on the performance of BWV 159. It took me some time to get used to Frank Kelly's voice but I like it now. In fact, the more I listen to Rifkin's recordings the more I like them. I don't know what this means. >
Maybe it means that this music is as great as anything ever written, all of the recordings are done respectfully by professional musicians, and the more you listen the more you appreciate that? Especially Rifkin, who was trying to demonstrate new thinking, not always welcome. Just a thought. The Rifkin I have, 2 CD set incl BWV 80 sounds like a resonant ambiance (or engineering ?), which to my ears defeats the OVPP just a bit. But I haven't listened to it for a while, in the interim my ears have been adjusting to Suzuki [9] and Gardiner [5], for ambient resonance. I posted a note months ago on my first hearing of a Suzuki, including Blaze. Let me know if you are interested and I will recover the reference. But I pretty much said Blaze can sing as good as any girl (or lady) and the sound was reverberant. I think Blaze is at his best in the three <Achs> of BWV 116, which I mentioned at that point. I referred to the text in the BWV 159 concert report because of my chat with Pamela Dellal, but didn't cross reference the Blaze performance. Thanks for creating the opportunity

I can't be objective about Kelley. I know him from live performances, more Mozart operas than Bach, but much more of both than recordings. When I hear a recording, I now it is him and I relate to the live experience.

There are lots of words in these pages about what is wrong with the recordings. it does a disservice to the music and the performers. It is good to see a new, positive voice. If you keep writing, I will keep answering!

< On Suzuki [9]: I have a couple of CD's from him and I love them all. Blaze is indeed a very good counter-tenor.
Anyway, in January I'll hear Blaze live (singing Handel - he knows something). >
Same thought as above, doubled. I expect to try to write a few words about the live performances I get to, just to support the concept of live music. Send comments on any concerts you get to. Maybe other people who have the opportunity will get to hear them, and do the same. BCML could use more of that!

As to the baby, most of my friends are musicians, and most of them are younger than me. I don't know what that means. I hope it means that I am on a track to go into geezerhood gracefully. Anyway, many of them have had babies in the period that I have known them. Some of those babies are no teenagers. Every one of thievery one!--considered music in the womb important. I don't recall anyone worrying too much about the details. I do recall comments like: it (before the days of ultra-sound) really likes Beethoven and Schoenberg.

I had a pet bird for many years. The bird needed music at all times, or it would screech. Just about any music was OK as an alternative to silence but he (?) [long aside, sexing birds is not easy, but he didn't lay eggs] was able to communicate that his special preferences were Mozart and Charlie (Bird) Parker. Go figure. He died. I miss him, but i don't miss cleaning up bird poop. Probably more than you wanted to know.

Pal Domokos wrote (December 3, 2006):
BWV 62 recordings

[To Ed Myskowski] Sorry for being slow to answer. I don't get to the list every day (or practice the Chaconne on a six-string banjo, as a matter of fact.)

You may be right about Rifkin, Ed. I think respectful is a very accurate expression to describe the way he approaches Bach's music. It's surely not OVPP itself that I like in his recordings: attempts by others don't always impress me.

You don't have Rifkin's other 2-CD set that contains BWV 106, BWV 131, BWV 99, and the bass cantatas? You simply have to have that! The BWV 131 is probably the best I've heard so far, Opalach sings BWV 82 beautifully, 106 is also great.

I'll look up your first post about Suzuki and Blaze [9]. I think Blaze is very good but I don't think he's as good as any female singer. There are some that are just better than him.

I don't have BWV 116 with Blaze, for me the aria he sings best is the opening one in BWV 83 (also with Suzuki). I listened to it a couple of days ago.

About concerts: I don't promise I'll report on every concert I attend. The latest one, some two weeks ago, wasn't that great. After a Torelli concerto and BWV 51, I had to sit through some so-called modern music in order to hear two Handel arias at the end. Next week I'm going to hear BWV 106 and BWV 151 with (among others) Mária Zádori: now, I'm looking forward to that!

On being positive: I think it's quite all right if people tell what they don't like about a recording. A negative comment is exactly as informative as a positive one. In either case, you have to know if the critic's taste is similar to yours, otherwise their opinions are no use to you.

I'm sorry for your bird - I love animals myself.s wrote:

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 3, 2006):
Pal Domokos wrote:
< You don't have Rifkin's other 2-CD set that contains BWV 106, BWV 131, BWV 99, and the bass cantatas? You simply have to have that! >
I read this before dinner, and relayed it to my wife over dinner. I cannot print her response. She is a feisty mix of African, Brit and Latin influences, originally from the Islands (Carib, not Hawaii). See a forthcoming OT Jump Up post (perhaps the final one) for more detail, if you are interested.

< I'll look up your first post about Suzuki and Blaze [9]. I think Blaze is very good but I don't think he's as good as any female singer. There are some that are just better than him. >
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I would be curious as to your choices. One of mine would be Hilde Rössl-Majdan (HRM!), but they are so different comparisons are almost pointless. Equally good, as my current quote of my earlier statement suggests. BTW, I cannot recover the original post quickly, but I recall writing <These guy [Blaze and Charles Brett, I believe] can sing with any of the girls (or mladies)>, or some such. Anyway, close enough for government work (a luscious Americanism).

< I'm sorry for your bird - I love animals myself. >
This is one of the kindest remarks we have seen on BCML in my tenure (approaching a year). It is indeed a pleasure to have you around! Aloha kaua (an approximation for welcome, to an individual).

Pal Domokos wrote (December 7, 2006):
Pal Domokos wrote:
<< You don't have Rifkin's other 2-CD set that contains BWV 106, BWV 131, BWV 99, and the bass cantatas? You simply have to have that! >>
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< I read this before dinner, and relayed it to my wife over dinner. I cannot print her response. She is a feisty mix of African, Brit and Latin influences, originally from the Islands (Carib, not Hawaii). See a forthcoming OT Jump Up post (perhaps the final one) for more detail, if you are interested. >
CD's make great Christmas presents: if you're not allowed to buy the Rifkin for yourself, give it to her!

<< I'll look up your first post about Suzuki and Blaze [9]. I think Blaze is very good but I don't think he's as good as any female singer. There are some that are just better than him. >>
< I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I would be curious as to your choices. One of mine would be Hilde Rössl-Majdan (HRM!), but they are so different comparisons are almost pointless. Equally good, as my current quote of my earlier statement suggests. BTW, I cannot recover the original post quickly, but I recall writing <These guy [Blaze and Charles Brett, I believe] can sing with any of the girls (or mladies)>, or some such. Anyway, close enough for government work (a luscious Americanism). >
I only have the Trauerode (BWV 198) (Scherchen) with Rössel-Majdan. I liked her tone, I remember that. I think Marga Höffgen, Anna Reynolds, Júlia were all better than Blaze. They sang with more emotion. But there are current-day altos as well, say, Ingeborg Danz, who sings very expressively with the right conductor. Nevertheless, I think Blaze is first-class. Have you checked him in BWV 83 with Suzuki? Or in the Easter Oratorio with McCreesh?

<< I'm sorry for your bird - I love animals myself. >>
< This is one of the kindest remarks we have seen on BCML in my tenure (approaching a year). It is indeed a pleasure to have you around! Aloha kaua (an approximation for welcome, to an individual). >
Check the website my email originates from and you'll understand.

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (December 7, 2006):
Pal Domokos wrote:
< I only have the Trauerode (BWV 198) (Scherchen) with Rössel-Majdan. I liked her tone, I remember that. I think Marga Höffgen, Anna Reynolds, Júlia Hamari were all better than Blaze. They sang with more emotion. But there are current-day altos as well, say, Ingeborg Danz, who sings very expressively with the right conductor. Nevertheless, I think Blaze is first-class. Have you checked him in BWV 83 with Suzuki? Or in the Easter Oratorio with McCreesh? >
Rössl-Majdan (with or without the -e- before the -l-, very complicated problem) spoils one for any other alto and that's that. I was lucky enough to basically live with her Bach cantatas and MP as my sole recordings of those things which she did record (all except two of the three Gielen cantatas and the "Es ist vollbracht" from the JP (BWV 245) which I never had until recent uploads from someone on operashare).

I find the McCreesh Easter-Oratorio and the companion Magnificat the most boring Bach I have ever heard. This is not bc. of Mr. Blaze but because of the conductor. I do not analyze this. It is my reaction.

I have come to treasure all the more the last two named works with R-M conducted by Prohaska.

Pal Domokos wrote (December 8, 2006):
Yoel L. Arbeitman wrote:
< Rössl-Majdan (with or without the -e- before the -l-, very complicated problem) spoils one for any other alto and that's that. I was lucky enough to basically live with her Bach cantatas and MP as my sole recordings of those things which she did record (all except two of the three Gielen cantatas and the "Es ist vollbracht" from the JP (BWV 245) which I never had until recent uploads from someone on operashare). >
It's always hard for me to decide what to listen to on the bus to and from work. Tomorrow it'll be the Trauerode (BWV 198): I'll check Frau Rössel-Majdan.

< I find the McCreesh Easter-Oratorio and the companion Magnificat the most boring Bach I have ever heard. This is not bc. of Mr. Blaze but because of the conductor. I do not analyze this. It is my reaction. >
It'd be an interesting competition: "My most boring recordings". I'd have a few candidates as well.


I have nothing from Prohaska. Oh well, you can't have everything. Or can you?

Ed Myskowski wrote (December 8, 2006):
Pal Domokos wrote:
< Tomorrow it'll be the Trauerode (BWV 198): I'll check Frau Rössel-Majdan. >
Yoël and I don't converse very often but we have a special point of agreement: you will not regret any time you spend listening to HRM!


No, you can't have everything, but you can enjoy the effort fo trying to. Or you can relax and enjoy what you have. Or seek a middle ground.

Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (December 9, 2006):
Pal Domokos wrote:

If you have a high speed connection, anything other than dial-up, DSL or cable(, etc.?), I have uploaded almost all the Rössl-Majdan/Prohaska and the one Rössl-Majdan/Wöldike cantatas CDs to my own small list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OLWT/

They are all out of print and unlikely to be in print. One or two (I forget) are re-created as CD-Rs by Arkivmusic.com. but I prefer to give them away on the internet.

All in all, as I recall there are five Prohaska Bach CDs with HRM (and with others, whatever was the diskmate in each case).

I will eventually upload the missing one and make the Gielen/HRM one available too. Life is too short to play games with record companies deleting such items or never digitizing them at all as in the case of Gielen.

Pal Domokos wrote (December 9, 2006):
[To Ed Myskowski] I listened to the Trauerode today, paying special attention to the alto aria. I find HRM's singing expressive, her voice warm and pleasant. Apart from this recording, I only have this aria with Brett and Buwalda, I prefer HRM's performance to theirs. I'd love to hear Ingeborg Danz sing it though.

Yes, I now I can't have everything. But I'm a Bach addict. I simply can't have enough of him.

Pal Domokos wrote (December 9, 2006):
[To Yoël L. Arbeitman] Thanks, I appreciate your offer. I just find a used Prohaska CD at amazon.de. I'll order it and see how much I like it.

Raymond Joly wrote (December 9, 2006):
[To Pal Domokos] I am pleased you listened to Her Royal Majesty and deplore you are so busy that you cannot type 16 letters.

Discussions in the Week of January 11, 2009

Chris Kern wrote (January 12, 2009):
BWV 62 intro

(My previous intro post lacked a comparison -- my plan was to compare the cantatas in a progressive fashion; i.e. compare BWV 62 with BWV 61 this week, and then to compare BWV 36 with BWV 62 and BWV 61 the week after. I personally think this makes more sense than loading all the comparisons right off the bat, and makes it easier for people who haven't listened to all the cantatas before to participate in the discussions without being overwhelmed.)

BWV 62 - Nun Komm Der Heiden Heiland II

The second cantata we have for Advent is 10 years or so after the first. This one is during Bach's extremely prolific time at Leipzig, in the second yearly cycle of cantatas. It is one of the 40 "chorale cantatas" which are all based around the same general plan -- a seasonal chorale is adapted to the cantata form by having the first movement be a choral fantasia and the last movement a simple 4-part chorale, with the middle movements being arias and recitatives adapted from the lyrics of the chorale verses.

Obviously this cantata invites direct comparison with BWV 61, although we shouldn't let the titles mislead us -- remember that the so-called "titles" of the cantatas are actually just the first lines of the cantatas and were not assigned by Bach. Although BWV 61 has been given the title "Nun Komm Der Heiden Heiland", it was not based around that chorale in the same way that BWV 62 is. After the first movement in BWV 61, the chorale plays no further part in the cantata. Whittaker believes that BWV 61 is superior with BWV 62, and I agree with him.

The primary importance in the lyrics of the chorale seem to be the wonder of Christ's birth, and particularly the mystery of how the Son of God could have such a humble birth. This is in contrast to BWV 61, whose lyrics were mostly focused on the idea of welcoming Christ (although that's present in this cantata as well). This represents two different aspects of the religious feeling that is expressed in the Advent season.

Mvt. 1 is the chorale fantasia. I like the versions such as Suzuki [9] and Gardiner [5] that take this at a fairly quick tempo -- I think the cantus firmus is clearer when it's not slowed down to a crawl. This, for me, is the only really standout movement in a relatively bland cantata (Whittaker seems to agree wime). Whittaker: "The modern practice of employing huge choirs, mostly of untrained voices, causes conductors to omit all choral trills and so an invaluable feature is lost. One finds also a notion that such embellishments are undevotional; yet Bach uses the device over and over again. Trills should always be observed..."

Mvt. 2 is a tenor aria with accompaniment, but no obbligato instruments. It is a fairly delightful aria; a little long, but overall pleasing.

Mvt. 3 is a recitative with some arioso at the end.

Mvt. 4 is a bass aria with only continuo accompaniment (although Whittaker mentions that the violins and violas are accompaning the continuo, I was not aware of this); this is my least favorite type of aria in the entire Bach oeuvre. I can't think of many bass + continuo arias that I like. Incidentally, I just watched Caesar in Egypt
(Handel) with my father over break, and this really reminds me of a Handellian aria, although I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the rushing continuo accompaniment.

Mvt. 5 is a recitative duet, a fairly rare occurence and a nice break from the usual solo recitatives. Whittaker: "[It] has all the fragrant charm of a Christmas carol...it is as if two children wandered into the stable hand in hand with wondering open eyes and sang an innocent song to the Babe."

Mvt. 6: is the standard 4-part chorale.

Douglas Cowling wrote (January 12, 2009):
BWV 62 Bach & Handel

Chris Kern wrote:
< Whittaker mentions that the violins and violas are accompaning the continuo, I was not aware of this); this is my least favorite type of aria in the entire Bach oeuvre. I can't think of many bass + continuo arias that I like. Incidentally, I just watched Caesar in Egypt (Handel) with my father over break, and this really reminds me of a Handellian aria, although I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the rushing continuo accompaniment. >
Handel wrote several arias which are totally in unison. The orchestral strings play without any harmonic realization from the continuo: they even play in unison with the voice (examples in "Alcina" and "La Resurrexione") Bach's aria is figured and the voice has a different melodic line but it has much the same effect as Handel's quite extraordinary arias.

Julian Mincham wrote (January 12, 2009):
Chris Kern wrote:
< My previous intro post lacked a comparison -- my plan was to compare the cantatas in a progressive fashion; i.e. compare 62 with 61 this week, and then to compare BWV 36 with BWV 62 and BWV 61 the week after. I personally think this makes more sense than loading all the comparisons right off the bat, and makes it easier for people who haven't listened to all the cantatas before to participate in the discussions without being overwhelmed.) >
I don't think it is a matter of what does, or does not, make more sense but?simply different ways of approaching it. If people have a?short essay of comparative comment ?at the beginning there is no sense in which they are likely to be overwhelmed. They can always save these comments and look through them as and when they feel they are relevant in later weeks. Different people will approach this in their own ways.

My reason for offering a very short piece (which is no means comprehensive; it still allows much to be said in the way of comparison of these threeworks) at this early stage was simply intended as a reminder to list members that the agreed ordering of the discussions that has just begun was brought about principally in order to make such comparisons possible. Personally I don't care HOW people do it. It's just a wasted opportunity if we don't.

Re the somewhat disparaging comments on the continuo arias, you are going to miss a great deal of vintage Bach if you dismiss these and I hope the comments don't put others off. As a counterpoint, can I suggest just two highly original fine arias of this type, BWV 107/4 and BWV 76/10. Bach's depictions of Satan, sin and/or the consequencences of these is always skittishly imaginative.

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 12, 2009):
Julian Mincham wrote:
>Bach's depictions of Satan, sin and/or the consequencences of these is always skittishly imaginative.<
John Harbison would add (I am not sure he would do it in writing, however) one more arriving at the trio: Satan, Sin and the Pope!

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 12, 2009):
BWV 62 recordings

Although I will not be listening or commenting in detail until after the Mendelssohn Orgy(r) is completed on Weds., I want to remind the list of the availability of a recent recording in case anyone wants to acquire it in time for the Advent 1 discussions:

Thomas Folan/Publick Musick [10], including Bach performing legend Max van Egmond.

I guess if Max is still performing, he is not quite a legend, as yet, in the strictest sense of the word? This release was first brought to our attention by Brad Lehman. A couple others of us have had very positive responses as well, myself and Steve Benson, for sure, all available in BCW archives. Our motto: <You can look it up!>

Some of us, for a few items, might rather you couldnt look it up. Write thoughtfully, I always say, and occasionally even do!

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 12, 2009):
BWV 62, BCW archives

Julian Mincham wrote (November 22, 2006):
< BWV 62 ----contrasting characters >
Ed Myskowski wrote:
< Can we reconcile <rippling with joy> with <dramatic and poignant>? >
JM:
>Yes I think we can. Firstly just to note that it is an interesting and constructive exercise to attempt to describe the character of a piece of music in words<
EM (2009)
I highly recommend that everyone go back and read Julians entire statement. I would repeat the entire statement, but that is foolish from a number of perspectives. Not least, it is robbing you of the exploratory educational process. Or perhaps educational exploratory process. EEP, either way.

It not likely a secret that I have made a few very good cyber-friends (folks who could be ugly as sin, and I would never know) in my few years on BCML. Julian was the first, based on exchanges like the one I cited to open, as well as the fact that he is a 600 ma fossil. No, that is not the proper phrasing. There is a 600 ma (Creationists take note, ma = million years) Ediacaran fossil in Oz which carries his family name. Julian is not responsible, he blames it on his Dad. My excuse, precisely, in times of stress.

I am looking forward to an enjoyable and enlightening five years, going forward (as if there is any other direction of time) which will no doubt test the skills and patience of the moderator. I expect he is looking forward to the challenge, recognizing that we are breaking new ground in the communication field. BCW, better than a book.

Neil Halliday wrote (January 13, 2009):
Ed Myskowski wrote:
<Can we reconcile <rippling with joy> with <dramatic and poignant>?>
Thanks for mentionoing this. I seem to remember the "rippling with joy" characterisation of the opening chorus as a reference to (a) the frequent repetition of the 'two semiquvers and quaver' figures on the oboes (Schweitzer's joy motif), and (b) the 'rocking' broken chord and scalar figures on the first violins via a continuous flow of semi
quavers, in the ritornello.

Julian's characterisation of the chorus as <dramatic and poignant> is obviously correct as to the overall tone of the chorus with it's B minor tonality, and strident 6/4 rhythm.

Julian Mincham wrote (January 13, 2009):
[To Neil Halliday] Thanks Neil I have always considered this opening fantasia to be one of the most subtle of the 42 in the second cycle.

One might also note that this cantata contains one of only 4 recitatives written for two voices in this cycle---preto mark musically the plural 'we' who join together to approach the crib.

Jean Laaninen wrote (January 13, 2009):
Chris Kern wrote:
< My previous intro post lacked a comparison -- my plan was to compare the cantatas in a progressive fashion; i.e. compare BWV 62 with BWV 61 this week, and then to compare BWV 36 with BWV 62 and BWV 61 the week after. I personally think this makes more sense than loading all the comparisons right off the bat, and makes it easier for people who haven't listened to all the cantatas before to participate in the discussions without being overwhelmed.) >
The week by week approach is a little easier for me. I tried all three at once and found remember the comparisons not so easy. But after going back and now playing a little of BWV 61 (each movement) and going on to review BWV 62, I have something that will stick in my mind. BWV 61 is pleasing in a simpler way than BWV 62, which I find in the first four movements more elegant and energized than the first four of BWV 61. The closing movements of BWV 62 definitely are as Julian described...poingant.

My listerning was entirely Rilling [4].

Jean Laaninen wrote (January 13, 2009):
Bach's choir and orchestra size in Weimer--question

Does anyone have this information. I do not have it in any references I have at home, though I do for Leipzig.

Thanks.

Paul T. McCain wrote (January 13, 2009):
[To Jean Laaninen, regarding Bach's choir and orchestra size in Weimer] I can't put my finger on it, but I thought I read somewhere that Bach's choir/orchestra in Weimar was fairly small. Sorry, that's not much help.

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 13, 2009):
Paul McCain wrote [Bach's choir and orchestra size in Weimer]:
>I can't put my finger on it, but I thought I read somewhere that Bach's choir/orchestra in Weimar was fairly small. Sorry, that's not much help.<
For once, I agree 100%!

Continue of this part of the discussion, see: Choir Forn - Part 8 [General Topics]

Neil Halliday wrote (January 13, 2009):
Julian Mincham wrote:
> Thanks Neil I have always considered this opening fantasia to be one of the most subtle of the 42 in the second cycle.<
I see now, after a read through of the BCW archived comments on BWV 62, that I need not have replied to Ed's message about reconciling "rippling with joy" and "dramatic and poignant". Many members contributed to the unusually extensive discussion; I can understand Alain's preference for "exhilaration" rather than my "rippling with joy", in BWV 62/1. Anyway, a lot of people obviously find much enjoyment in this "exhilarating, poignant, dramatic" chorus, with moments of sheer joy, depending on the particular recording.

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 13, 2009):
Neil Halliday wrote:
>I see now, after a read through of the BCW archived comments on BWV 62, that I need not have replied to Ed's message about reconciling "rippling with joy" and "dramatic and poignant"<
Although we have not heard from Neil Mason for a while, I will continue to distinguish the two Neils, just in case. Not to go all nostalgic on you, but I well remember Neil M. for introducing me to the phrase <generosity of spirit>. Alas, he brought it up in the breach, the lack of it, on BCML. I have always taken it as part of my mission to rectify that lack. If that is not apparent, perhaps the mote is in your eye (Biblical reference, I can look it up, if necessary)?

I pondered long and hard (many seconds, for sure) about how best to handle references to previous discussion on the Cantata of the Week. I settled on brief citation and hint in the right direction. A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse? No surprise a guy from Oz, and an old friend to boot, would catch it first.

There was a time, summer of 2006 as I recall, when no one posted but Neil and Julian, with me chiiming in with an occasional . Had I known, at the time, I would have simply said <Good show, Mates>. Or some such.

This is an interactive forum. That is its uniqueness. It is also a forum with archives, which we are under some obligation to try to use.

A recent example, to my own embarassment (I am too embarassed to do a spell check on the one *r* or two):

In the rather obscure, but interesting to those of us involved, chat re Johann Christoph Bach (first cousin, once removed to JSB), at the end Aryeh gently (as always) pointed out that the answer was already archived on BCW.

Perhaps even more telling, I cannot count the times I have gone to Google, and quickly ended up back at BCW.

Rippling with joy? Dramatic and poignant? You can just call me Ed. Never ed.

Terejia wrote (January 13, 2009):
BWV 62, opening chorus

Julian Mincham wrote:
> Thanks Neil I have always considered this opening fantasia to be one of the most subtle of the 42 in the second cycle.<
Double cantus firms in Bass (continuo only?) and soprano voice?

Jean Laaninen wrote (January 13, 2009):
[To Paul T. McCain, regarding Bach's choir and orchestra size in Weimer] Thanks, Paul. It may then, compare to Leipzig.

Chris Stanley wrote (January 13, 2009):
"frequent repetition of the 'two semiquvers and quaver' figures on the oboes (Schweitzer's joy motif)",
I still seem to be in a minority (of one) when it comes to this cantata and especially the opening chorus. It is definitely the wretched oboes that soiund like cackling crows (Leusink version [7]) that give this the underlying malevolence that led to my Hitchcock's "Birds" analogy last discussion.

Terejia wrote (January 13, 2009):
Terejia wrote [opening chorus]: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachCantatas/message/29997
self-reply :

No, it is not exactly double cantus firms.
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Guide/BWV62-Guide.htm
first and second paragraph has more info about this. Instrumentals (bass continuo and oboe) plays only the first and last line of choral.

Terejia wrote (January 14, 2009):
Chris Kern wrote: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachCantatas/message/29956
(large portion snipped)
> Mvt. 4 is a bass aria with only continuo accompaniment (although Whittaker mentions that the violins and violas are accompaning the continuo, I was not aware of this); this is my least favorite type of aria in the entire Bach oeuvre. I can't think of many bass + continuo arias that I like. Incidentally, I just watched Caesar in Egypt (Handel) with my father over break, and this really reminds me of a Handellian aria, although I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the rushing continuo accompaniment.<
In terms of music, I would rather sympathise a bass singer for his alloted role. I have hard time understanding why this almost ridiculously sounding music were ever included in this cantata. It feels so out of the place, to my ears which must be trained better at this point.

I like "quia fecit mihi magna" in BWV 243 and BWV 243a very much, by the way. It is "my Christmas".

this week, and then to compare

William Hoffman wrote (January 14, 2009):
BWV 62: Fugitive notes

Advent:

The use of dance-influence in movements of Bach's Advent Cantatas, BWV 61, 62, and 36, 70a, 186a, and 132, according to information in Fincke-Hecklinger's <Tanzcharaktere in JSB Vokalmusik> and Little & Jenne's <Dance and the Music of JSB> 2nd ed.:
BWV 61: No. 1, Chs. "Nun komm der Heiden Heiland," ¾ French Overture, pastorale-giga
No. 3, T dc aria, "Komm Jesu, komm," 9/8, general dance character
BWV 62: No. 1 Chs. Nunkomm.3/4, general dance character
No. 2, T dc aria "Bewundert, o Menschen," 3/8, passepied-menuet or siciliano
No. 4, B dc aria "Streite, siege," 4/4 gavotte
BWV 36: No. 1, Chs. "Steigt freudig euch empor," ¾, minuet
No. 3, T dc aria,"Dide Liebe zeit," 3/8 minuet
No. 6, T cle. aria "Der du bist dem Vater," ¾ polonaise in Leahy's "Bach's setting of `Nun komm." in <Music and Theology> Leaver festschrift
BWV 70a/2=70/3: A aria "Wenn kommt der Tag," ¾ trio sarabande
No. 5/10: B aria "Seligster Erquickungstag," ¾, adagio dance character
BWV 186a/2=186/3, B aria "Bist du, der da kommen soll," ¾ sarabande
BWV 186a/5=186/10: SA aria "Laß Seele, kein Leiden," 3/8 French gigue
BWV 132/1: S dc aria "Bereitet die Wege," 6/8, French gigue or passepied

Since the First Sunday in Advent is treated as a festival in Leipzig, one of the characteristics would be the use of trumpets and drums, found in the opening tutti movement in Bach predecessor Johann Schelle's (1648-1701) German biblical cantata, "Machet die Tore weit" (CPo recording).

Service Order in Leipzig is found in Bach's hand at the beginning of the ms. scores of BWV 61 ad BWV 62, presumably for Bach's emphasis on the start of the new church year, says Dürr in <Cantatas of JSB>, p. 76. In NBR, No. 113: No. 2, motet (replaced Introit Psalm chants), often in Latin, such as "Peur natus in Betlehem" or German motet settings such as Machet die Tore weit" (Psalm 24:7-10). The chorale "Nun komm der Heiden Heiland" was Luther's adaptation (contrafaction) of the Latin hymn "Veni redemptor genitum."

Motet settings of "Machet die Tore weit" ("Fling wide the Gates) abound, besides Schein, Seele and Briegel, including Schütz, Flor, H. Grimm, and M. Tobias, as well as cantatas of Schelle and Graun.

Another Advent-Christmas hymn is "Der Tag, der ist so freundlich," set by Bach as BWV 294 as an untexted 4-part chorale in Bach's Breitkopf published collection, 1784-87 based on the Latin hymn "Die est laetitiae" (Klug 1535).

Neil Halliday wrote (January 14, 2009):
Terejia wrote:
>I have hard time understanding why this almost ridiculously sounding music were ever included in this cantata. It feels so out of the place, to my ears which must be trained better at this point.<
Have you heard your countryman's version (Suzuki [9])? The vigour and vitality is exhilarating; Kooij does a good job of actually conveying the pitch of all those semiquavers, at fast tempo.

Two suggestions (if I may) 1. Play the continuo line and vocal line (difficult on one manual since both lines are on the bass clef, but it will suffice) in order to appreciate the imitative nature of the writing. 2. Now listen to the music with a score (BCW score will do; piano left hand is the continuo line), and be astounded by Kooij's vocal gymnastics.

It's opera, for sure, and no doubt caused some consternation among some memebers of the church authorities.

Interestingly, it seems Koopman [8] has done away with the unison upper strings, highlighting the continuo instruments, but I prefer the unrelenting vigour and brightness of Suzuki's [9] upper strings in unison with (ie, an octave above) the continuo. Suzuki's organist brings just the right colour to the piece.

[Strangely, in the BGA the upper strings in the first three bars are written on a separate (3^rd) stave on the bass clef - impossible for the upper strings to actually play in this clef, down to low A, for example. Obviously they play an octave higher than written; and this 3rd stave drops out with the indication that violins and viola are to play (sempre) in unison with the continuo].

Neil Halliday wrote (January 15, 2009):
Chris Kern wrote:
>Mvt. 2 is a tenor aria with accompaniment, but no obbligato instruments. It is a fairly delightful aria; a little long, but overall pleasing.<

There are some subtleties of instrumentation, eg, oboes 1,2 doubling violins 1,2 in the ritornellos, but tacit (ie, oboes) in other places. Rilling [4] has a further refinement: toward the end of the middle section where "divine Manna is made evident", the 1^st violins, playing alone at this stage, are reduced in Rilling's version to a solo violin, most effectively.

Featured in this tuneful aria are long passages set to single syllables of text, especially "(Be)-herr-(scher)" (ruler), where the singer holds the syllable for 20 bars! (I wonder what is the longest example in the cantatas).

William Hoffman wrote (January 17, 2009):
Cantata 62: Fugitive Chorale Note

Cantata BWV 62 for Advent Sunday officially opens the church year in Bach's only unified, homogeneous cantata cycle, while Telemann was doing homogeneous cycles based on one librettist, dance forms, solo cantatas, etc.

Bach was not the first composer to use entire chorales in a cantata or a cantata cycle, according to Alfred Dürr's "Bach's Chorale Cantatas" in <Cantors at the Crossroads> Essays (1967). While Dürr does not cite specific examples, composers such as Buxtehude used especially popular chorale texts unchanged in the earlier cantatas before the Neumeister Italian type with free-poetry recitatives, choruses, and arias.

Chorale cantatas of the Neumeister type were especially, inherently challenging. One result might be that to our contemporary sensitivities, depending upon the actual melody, these cantatas may not always sem as attractive as other settings using original texts, often biblical paraphrases. Bach partially surmounted that challenge by using a librettist to paraphrase the stanzas in between the first (choral fantasia) and the last, closing 4-part setting in his chorale cantatas. While festive tunes like "A Mighty Fortress" and "Praise to the Lord" can be embedded in a dazzling polyphonic, canonic, imitative setting, other chant-like melodies like "Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland," popularly called "Savior of the Nations, Come" (William Reynolds), just don't excite and engage as much. Take the motet tune, "Machet die Tore weit." Now that moves and has a beat! Perhaps that's why Bach predecessor, Schelle (late Buxtehude contemporary), set it as the opening tutti in an Advent cantata with trumpets and drums.

The set, unwavering strophic chorale stanzas (actually each successive stanza is a parody) too often seem rigid, static, repetitive, and monotonous. Even in creative choral-text paraphrases, recitatives can come out sounding stogy, and arias and choruses lacking the contrasts of da-capo (ABA) form. Also, because of this textual straight-jacket, Bach couldn't parody most chorale cantata movements as he did with his secular cantata movements. Imagine Bach finding an appropriate, well-know chorale for each of 60 occasions in the cycle that could be always effectively set to music, and then throw in engaging orchestral ritornelli or a catchy dance-like melody, and then find a competent choir to sing these highly-original works for a whole year!

Bach continues to challenge our sense and sensibilities, as I think he did his generation!

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 19, 2009):
BWV 62 recordings

In between Orgies(r) (music only) and other fun, I have been listening to three recordings: Herreweghe [6], Suzuki [9], and Folan/Publick Musick [10], without dong much reading, other than the BCML posts which have passed by. I was reparing next to read a bit to confirm (or not) some of my immediate impressions, recollections of previous posts, etc. One of those impressions is that Herreweghe sound s abit more relaxed in tempo than Suzuki.

When I checked the published timings on the CDs, Suzuki [9] is 17:47, Herreweghe [6] 16:39, for total time. What gives?

What gives is that the individual movements for Herreweghe [6] add up to 18:39, not 16:39. Someone somewhere along the line misread a 6 for an 8! I know how easy that is to do bedcause this very morning, reading my own writing, I made the very same mistake in a friends phone number, while trying to call for a Happy New Year and Inauguration DAy. I eventually figured it out, but not without a struggle. BTW, she lives in Washington DC, and works for the government (FDIC, the bank overseers and insurers). You would not believe how big a deal this all is:
(1) She anticipates that the city will be chaotic on Tues.
(2) The FDIC will be chaotic for the foreseeable future.

My standard advice applies (borrowed from my pals at Looney Tunes record shop): World ends soon! Buy records. Of course, they have been saying that since the world almost ended ca. 1981.

Some quick, one-word impressions of the records: Suzuki [9] is the most aggressive, but enjoyably so. Herreweghe [6] is perfectly balanced, nothing sticking out, as I have come to expect from him. Polan is quite a treat, the most relaxed of all, and with the special bonus of Max van Egmond, still chugging after all these years, in the no mans land of age between Old Dudes junior and senior. My impressions are in fact exactly in line with the corrected timings, but I spent more than a few minutes of puzzlement. More to come, I hope.

If six was eight, wasnt that a Jimi Hendrix tune? Never mind, but extra credit for getting the answer.

Glen Armstrong wrote (January 19, 2009):
[To Ed Myskowski, regarding recordings]
"If six was nine" is a Hendrix song, but I'm unsure of the eight.

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 19, 2009):
Glen Armstrong wrote [recordings]:
>"If six was nine" is a Hendrix song, but I'm unsure of the eight<
Correct! I did not anticipate anyone reading that far, let alone getting the answer, so I do not have anything prepared for the extra credit. But you have the satisfaction of holding your own with all the experts.

The pun, the eight instead of nine, is because of the transposition of six and eight in both the published timing for Herreweghe [6], and in my misread phone number.

See how easy and fun it is to post to BCML!

Ed Myskowski wrote (January 19, 2009):
On the BCW recordings page, there are two bass singers indicated for BWV 62. I previously mentioned Max van Egmond, but in fact it is Jonathan Rohr who performs on BWV 62/3 (Mvt. 3) and 4 (Mvt. 4). Max does perform in other works on the CD, but not in BWV 62.

I made it a point to acquire some of his other recent work, but I have not had a chance to do much with it, as yet. Info to come in due time.

Russell Telfer wrote (February 24, 2009):
Jean Laaninen wrote: in reply to Chris Kern's Intro to BWV 62: Monday, January 12, 2009:
< BWV 61 is pleasing in a simpler way than BWV 62, which I find in the first four movements more elegant and energized than the first four of BWV 61. The closing movements of BWV 62 definitely are as Julian described...poignant.
My listening was entirely Rilling [4]. >
Russell
I've recently taken part in a study performance of cantata BWV 62 so it's fresh in my mind. My impressions:
There is a wonderful freshness about the opening movement. Advent is one of the seasons, or states of mind or events, where freshness is appropriate: something great is about to happen (the start of the summer holidays perhaps?) and it is blissful to be transported by these repeated rhythmic figures cascading through the keys and feel the sense of joy that is appropriate at Advent, and other times.

At times I am reminded of some fairly light British compositions of the 20^th century, so you might conclude that compositional structures like that in 62/1 may have influenced later composers. (I'm sure Bach has been imitated
more than anyone.)

In BWV 62/2, the tenor aria (Mvt. 2), I don't feel that this is a fully Advent-tide message (chastity shall not be defiled) but most of us will be listening rather than word-watching. This is a beautiful aria to sing, and only "rather difficult". It certainly raises the value of the whole as a work of art.

I'm not so happy with BWV 62/4 (Mvt. 4). "Fighting, conquering, overcoming." Bashing somebody or something into place. Have things changed over the centuries? I'd like to think so. Bach had to adapt to his environment and he survived very well, but we don't always have to like his message.As for the music, I find it bucolic, rustic, aggressive, and just a little repetitive. Set in an opera, I wouldn't turn a hair, it would match perfectly, but this unfolds in church and is to be taken seriously. I expect the pitchforks will be out for me.

As Jean says, the closing movements are poignant. The duet BWV 62/5 (Mvt. 5) reminds me of some late passages in the SMP (BWV 244). I like BWV 61 as well. I shan't choose between them.

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Last update: ýFebruary 26, 2009 ý07:53:23